4411

Things like the Hyde Amendment and means testing for community college seem like pretty small fry if one considers that the reconciliation bill is maybe the only chance the Biden administration will have to do something substantive on climate, an issue where all experts agree we are firmly in the “start steering away from the iceberg NOW” window.

Anyway, I hope all the finagling and finessing leads to something getting passed…

4412

That’s the thing… if you give up on those tiny things, and pass what would be the biggest revamp of America’s social programs since the New Deal… I mean, you will have gotten the best deal ever. You will have achieved more in one year than you have seen achieved in your entire lives.

The idea of walking away from that, because you want even more… is nuts.

4413

Yeah, this is just the same old framing that puts all the responsibility on Progressives for everything.

Flip it around. Why are Corporate Dems willing to crash the entirety of Biden’s agenda in exchange for … means testing on community college grants? Why are they so insane and irrational? How dumb could those Centrists possibly be?

4414

The thing is, you can’t say, “Why are they saying we can’t have literally everything?”

I mean, there are lots of reasons. You can’t have infinite stuff. Making some minor limiting requests is not the crazy position, when you are talking about the remaining bill being the biggest increase in social spending ever.

So, no man, you are the unreasonable one.

And the result of not getting a deal, is that you get nothing. Which is so much worse for you, because you want EVERYTHING in the deal.

I seriously do not understand how this is so hard to grasp. Half a loaf is better than no bread. And this half a loaf would constitute the biggest legislative victory for progressives EVER. Fucking take the win, dude, Jesus Christ.

4415

If the messaging is that centrists fail, you’ll be more likely to get a better deal in the future, if you get fewer centrists and more mainstream Dems in congress.

The progressives have negotiated in good faith, Sinema and Manchin are the ones that haven’t.

Sometimes better to take nothing and use it to get more later.

4416

He was doing that months ago.

I don’t think it’s a very good bet to bet that a guy who won WV as a Democrat can’t do it as a Republican.

4417

I need @scottagibson to bust me out of my cynical funk (since he was on-point yesterday), because right now it looks like we’re done.

4418

No, this is fucking not going to happen. Stop fucking saying it. It is fucking stupid.

If this shit fails, then you are going to lose Congress and you will NEVER retake it.

The bullshit notion that by fighting with centrists you are gonna somehow transform things into a progressive wonderland is a nonsense fantasy with no basis in reality.

If you want to push the agenda of more progressives, then you need to get shit done now, even if it isn’t EVERYTHING, and then grow your power in congress in the future.

The idea that you gotta swing for the fences or not bother going to bat, is nuts.

4419

Who are you talking about here? Who are the Corporate Dems, and what are they doing to crash Biden’s agenda? Do you mean…Joe Manchin?

4420

The Progressives have a problem that they are being led by people who have never achieved anything in congress, ever.

4421

Well, they don’t vote until they vote. I’ll wait and see.

(Sorry, that’s all I got.)

4422

If however whatever does pass is some tepid bullshit that’s totally underfunded and doesn’t help anyone but the most destitute, we’re back to the “always struggling” people thinking government can’t do anything, and that “Others” are getting all the government help, so why vote for Dems?

Also I very much doubt Manchin is on board with doing anything substantive on climate stuff, coming from West Virginia.

4423

The problem with Manchin isn’t that everyone has to compromise. The problem with Manchin is that he basically by being the last across the line gets to write the bill. That’s galling as a process no matter the issues at stake.

The problem with Sinema is that she also wants to be a Manchin but she doesn’t seem to know what, exactly, she wants other than to be important.

4424

I don’t know any reason to suppose this as the likely outcome. Certainly not based on the ground that Manchin has staked out.

$1.5 trillion over ten years is the projected cost of making the expanded child tax credit permanent, even assuming no new revenues to offset that cost and no additional means testing. And Manchin has said he’s on board for means tested benefits and tax increases for the wealthy.

There’s room in his number for things that have a dramatic impact on people’s lives, and as stupid as means testing is, it doesn’t make something like that less meaningful or substantially less popular. Progressives would certainly be disappointed that there wasn’t more, but the measures that could be included will be wildly popular and credit would redound to the Democrats for it.

4425

You’re right, but keep in mind that his position is very much a gamble. If Dems had won one more Senate seat he’d be completely powerless.

4426

I mean it’s not a gamble - it’s a willingness to push the process to gain power. One GOP defection also renders him powerless.

4427

I hope you’re right about all of that, and making that credit permanent would be awesome. But Sinema won’t even agree to that stuff, will she?

4428

I don’t have any idea what Sinema will do, mostly because I think she doesn’t have any idea what she will do either. The most optimistic take is that she will vote for whatever Manchin is for, having used him to establish that she’s ‘conservative’ and ‘responsible’.

4429

Yea I think actually Sinema might be worse than Manchin - I’m afraid after Manchin has his day she’s going to want to also grandstand at the 11th hour, but with less political acumen and more chaotic, self aggrandizing energy.

4430

This is nice reading if you like to get mad, so… maybe don’t read it.