4451

I’m mad too. I just know who I’m putting nearly all of the blame on for this, and it’s not the left wing of the party, They’ve been negotiating in good faith the whole time.

The nutjobs are the centrists this time.

4452

Totally agree with you here, and that the CTC needs to be permanent (and only as means tested as it is and no further).

4453

I can’t even. It’s not that hard to type out Manchin and Sinema. It’s only about five letters longer than the centrists.

4454

Those two are pretty much the centrists. Everyone else but Feinstein who I suspect is kept carefully wrapped is pretty mainstream. May not be progressives, but they’re ok with what BIden wants, and that’s good enough.

4455

I mean if you want to make the case that Feinstein is decrepit and should retire yesterday, I certainly won’t stop you.

4456

But the thing is, some of these things, are things they don’t want. Things like the example you gave previously, of the Hyde amendment. MOST of America supports the Hyde amendment. Dropping that is not something which appeals to Manchin’s constituents.

So the fact that he’s bringing that up as a point of compromise? That’s not crazy.

But there isn’t anything in those bills that you don’t like, right? It’s just a giant pile of stuff you want. It’s not like you’re being asked to actually give anything to the deal.

The “compromise” you are making here, is that you are receiving a ton of stuff that you want. You aren’t actually giving anything in return. It’s not like you’re saying, “Ok, well we’ll increase military spending in order to get you to increase social spending” or something like that. You’re just winning, straight up.

If you ask for $100, and instead I give you $80, it’s still a freaking awesome deal for you. If you fight with me and say that you aren’t going to accept the deal unless I give you the full $100, you’re a nutjob.

4457
4458

There’s infrastructure (which even some GOP people voted for as a BIG concession) a separate bill tied to a pared down 1.5 trillion (over 10 years) bill that maybe makes the CTC permanent, and includes what else?

4459

Honestly, I have no idea… but $150 billion dollars every year is a freaking ton of stuff dude.

I mean, the argument of, “But the DoD budget is even bigger!” is nuts. Yeah, guess what, the DoD budget is fucking gigantic. That doesn’t mean that anything smaller is peanuts.

It’s “only” 6 times the annual budget of NASA, every year.

Oh, plus another $100 Billion every year for infrastructure.

Dude… it’s a good deal. Take the money, Toombs.

And it’s not like its’ the last time you’ll ever get to pass a law. If you do that, and it works like you think it will and improves the country… then you can pass more laws!

4460

Well, realistically, if Biden gets anything like $2t on top of the BIP and the earlier Covid assistance bill, there isn’t going to be much appetite in Congress to do a lot more in his first term. There are actual centrists in Congress who will begin to balk. Manchin is just the first one.

And progressives understand that, which is why they’re trying to play hardball.

4461

there’s also a sense from progressives that they’ll be playing defense after 2022, so whatever they get now is all they’ll get , possibly for a long time.

4462

That’s more or less how the Pod Save America guys see it. Basically: “This is our shot.”

4463

When they say that do they actually mean that they want either 100% or 0%? Because that’s what it sounds like.

4464

I agree with your general sentiment about “taking the win” in the current impasse but I’m not so sure it’ll help Dems electoral chances in the long run, because apparently states can do whatever the expletive they want with regard to who gets to vote now, thanks to the Shelby decision (and thanks to two or more IDIOTS in the Senate who won’t even carve out an exception to the filibuster for Voting Rights legislation).

Hell, they’re fixing it so GOP state legislatures can just say, like Nicole Sullivan’s old MadTV “Lancôme Lady” character, “lalalalala” with their fingers in their ears if the popular vote for President in their states doesn’t go their way, and substitute legit electors with their own politically reliable toadies who will do what they’re told, like good little Bolsheviks.

Sorry, I’m just in a foul mood and completely disgusted right now.

I’m sure the coming corporate run White ethno-state will be lovely to live in, NOT.

4465

“Our plan is great and amazingly popular and we have to pass all of it right now because once we pass it we will never ever be in power again” is a very strange view to hold. And even if it’s true, and Dems will never be in power again, that means Republicans will shit-can the whole plan next year, or the year after that, etc.

4466

He’ll only have accomplished…
Checks notes

More than any other President since FDR.

Exactly!
If the plan works, it’s going to make you win more elections! And then you won’t need to worry about this super slim majority!

4467

Probably not, not in constant dollar terms. But it isn’t nothing.

See? Who says we can’t agree on something?

4468

I hope you’re right.

4469

Lol, that didn’t age well. In the past few hours we’ve gone from “minor limiting requests” to “slashing 58% off of what was already a compromise plan”. Or at least that’s the current request, we’ll see what the next demand is. Which gets back to basic negotiating. You seem to want progressive dems to signal that they are desperate to accept any deal that is offered to them, no matter how pale a shadow it is of their original goals and campaign promises, or even of the things they negotiated within the party 3 months ago. This is a bad negotiating strategy.

4470

I can’t think of another president who passed trillions of dollars in new social spending like this, even if you account for inflation… Maybe Eisenhower with the interstate system, but I actually think not.

Nope, just looked, the interstate highway system cost around 500B in today’s dollars.