I for one am shocked that Strollen and Times think the progressive Dems should stop being so progressive.
Shocked.
I mean, 8 million voters. Itâs not nothing. Itâs certainly more than the Republicans have had in my lifetime. The last time the Dems did this well was back in 2009, where they had control of the Presidency and veto-proof control of Congress for ⌠72 days. That was how much time they had to get their agenda through before an untimely death lost them the majority they needed.
I feel like there might be a lesson there about the need for working with haste when you have a slim majority.
Alstein
4556
never-Trumpers want to turn the clock back to the old times, not realizing that those same old times they support are the exact cause of the mess weâre in today. This is why I feel those folks need to be given a coloring book and some ice cream while the intelligent folks fix the country. They at least did the right thing in the end, but theyâre responsible for the mess weâre in.
They do have some rhetorical skills. Nobody can throw shade at Trump like George Will.
Timex
4558
But in this case, the motivation is that I want democrats to actually get something done, because if they fail, the country is doomed.
I canât really figure out if some people donât grasp that this is a form of negotiating leverage, or if they donât care that this is a form of negotiating leverage. Nor can I understand why all their bile is directed at the progressives in the House, rather than the one conservative in the Senate.
Timex
4560
I feel like part of the problem here is that itâs not really negotiation in a traditional sense.
Normally, both sides are making concessions.
In this case, the progressives arenât making any concessions. Their âofferâ is to agree to vote for a bill, that contains a trillion dollars of spending that they themselves actually want.
âIf you buy me dessert, Iâll agree to eat this free steak dinner you bought me.â
They already made some concessions. They agreed to vote for the BIP â a bill they didnât like! â in the Senate on the premise that the other bill would be generally as described and that the two would be passed in the house simultaneously. Those are actually concessions, and they made them. As for negotiating now, thatâs what theyâre doing: using what leverage they have to influence the content of that other bill. I donât really know what else you expect them to do, except maybe negotiate against themselves?
(Also, weâve already had this conversation once today, and itâs pretty silly of you to keep pretending that none of this has happened, but you do you I guess.)
Timex
4562
Again, voting for stuff that you actually want, isnât actually a concession.
I think another part of the problem is the implicit threat being leveled by the progressives. That if they donât get their way, they will burn it all down, refuse to pass a bill that they specifically think should be passed, and destroy the democrats.
Itâs similar to the actions from the extreme right wing when the GOP controlled the house.
Itâs also perfectly clear that Biden comes down on the side of the progressives. He isnât trying to force them to vote on BIP now; he wants them to be able to see the shape of the reconciliation bill before they have to make that choice.
(Also, weâve already had this conversation once today, and itâs pretty silly of you to keep pretending that none of this has happened, but you do you I guess.)
Timex
4565
One thing I will note is that Biden is doing a good job at trying to keep this thing alive. Heâs doing well at avoiding alienation of the progressives, which will be key to getting them on board.
I agree the Democrats are in majority in the country, thank god, given the alternative.
The problem is as far as power goes itâs completely irrelevant. The Democrats have the presidency, and Biden is very experienced, his team is generally competent, this is huge.
But in the Congress any single senator can hold everything hostage and a handful of congresspeople have the same power.
The Democrats already waste one of 6 silver bullets (aka reconciliation) by not getting a bill out by yesterday. Theyâve also delayed the start of infrastructure projects by several months. This has political consequences.
Here is the thing, there is almost no political case to argue against infrastructure, especially when 19 Republicans vote for it.
Virtually, every item in the BBB bill will cost some votes in purple or red district. That doesnât mean the democrats shouldnât push for these things, but they do have to be mindful of the political cost.
As Timex say, they progressive arenât making a compromise, Iâve yet to hear a single member of the progressive caucus say they donât want improved infrastructure in their district. They donât lose a single by supporting the infrastructure bill, and they help the country.
I think they think they probably lose the entire reconciliation bill, or the things in it they most want. And I think theyâre probably right about that.
On this:
Is this right? I havenât heard anyone say theyâve lost their shot at a reconciliation bill because of a deadline.
Why was anything wasted? So what if it hasnât been done yet.
The time frame is all fakery.
The fiscal year ended yesterday. I thought it was based on the fiscal years not calendar years. Regardless they can still pass it bill, this year or next year. The only question is how many bills they could have passed.
As far as I know, thereâs no real deadline. I recall earlier talk that they got two for one, because nobody did one the prior year. That makes it seem unlikely theyâve missed any deadline, but I am not the Senate parliamentarian lol.
As for the premise that the Progressive Caucus wanted everything in the BIP, is that totally accurate? Sure, they probably wanted no more lead pipes but maybe some thought that all the road paving and such would encourage more driving of gasoline and diesel powered vehicles which exacerbates climate change.
138
4572
So what happens (theoretically) when Biden talks Manchin into upping his limit to 2 or even 2.5 trillion?
Thereâs a reason that conservative organizations like the Chamber of Commerce want to pass the BIP now. Itâs because passing it now eliminates the leverage needed to get a substantial, meaningful reconciliation bill.
