5018

Dude, it’s going to make jobs for people. That’s a huge, direct impact.

Remember Flint Michigan? Folks used to care about that, right? Fixing that kind of shit is a pretty massive deal, right? You get to, you know, dramatically improve the lives of people, while simultaneously creating jobs for the people who you need to replace all that water infrastructure.

If “making it so your kids don’t get lead poisoning” isn’t a big enough deal to encourage people to vote, is doing know what is.

Or what about improving airports and mass transit? Or the ports that are, right now, fucking up all of our shipping?

I just don’t get you guys… This is stuff that you were saying was the most important stuff around when Bernie was saying we needed it. Is it just that it’s not the current shiney thing that the far left is crowing about, so now you don’t even remember that it used to be a cornerstone of what you wanted?

5019

You seem to think people are arguing against the infrastructure bill.

All of it is needed. All of it. The road, the bridges, the clean energy credits, the support for child care. It all creates jobs. Things like child care also expand the workforce so that there are people to take those jobs.

5020

It’s looking like you are going into next week, not having gotten any of it done at all. Despite having a bill ready to go for weeks.

And that does not fly among folks who aren’t super far left. It makes the democrats look like incompetents who can’t do anything… Basically, it makes them look like the Republicans.

5021

Do you believe that if the infrastructure bill passes tomorrow that both Manchin and Sinema will quickly pass the current reconciliation bill? If so, why?

5022

No, what I think will happen is that bill will be negotiated on over the next few weeks or months.

But you will have already passed over a trillion dollars of critical stuff. You will have already achieved a huge thing. mcauliffe could be pointing to that as a win in his election right now. The Democrats could be saying, “we accomplished that thing that Trump failed to do for 4 years straight.”

5023

Is screwed or not completely on the strength or lack thereof of his campaign and the infrastructure bill, or even both bills passing tomorrow, won’t change that one bit at this point.

Plus if we are going there and assuming a difference would be made, wouldn’t both bills passing make a far far bigger difference.

When the midterms come around minimal road and bridge maintenance won’t move anyone. And that’s all the infrastructure bill really is. Barely keeping up with what is necessary. When thanks to Biden and the Democrats and not a single republican they can finally afford day care, that might make a difference.

I would really like to see Manchin and Sinema line item the things they object to in the current text of the bill and explain why removing them was worth letting this level of democrats in disarray take over the narrative. Let’s invoke McAuliffe, assuming again this makes or breaks his campaign, have them explain why this wrangling was worth wrecking his campaign to cut out whatever items they find objectionable.

5024

If it has passed 3 weeks ago, it definitely would have helped his campaign. If it passed this week, it would definitely help him. It would be a huge thing in the news going into rejection day, about how the democrats actually got shit done.

You are kidding yourself if you are pretending like it doesn’t matter. It did matter. Wasting this time has already had negative effects.

Yeah, that shit ain’t happening. How can you not have that through your head yet?

The reconciliation bill is not fucking passing this week. There is zero chance of that. The bill doesn’t even exist yet.

Holy shit dude, do you really have no idea what’s in the infrastructure bill? Go freaking check it out, man. Road maintenance is just one part of it. Jesus Christ, dude.

Also, I don’t know if you guys realize this… But the seats the dems are going to lose in 2022? The ones at risk?

They aren’t the fucking deep blue ones. They aren’t from the progressive caucus.

The seats you are going to lose, if the democrats blow it, are going to be the seats from the moderate Republicans who really wanted that infrastructure bill to run on… Because it would play well in their districts.

And if you lose those districts, guess what? You are fucked! You don’t get anything! You don’t get to hold the GOP accountable for anything. Your consolation prize is authoritarian fascism, congrats.

5025

Sigh.

5026

Not now, no, because Manchin and Sinema have dragged this out.

I’ll let you reply to you.

5027

If we pass nothing, those districts are lost. If we pass only the bipartisan bill, those districts are lost. The only scenario in which victory is a possibility (not even a certainty) is to pass both bills.

5028

I am a primary source addict known for subjecting myself to the full contents of bills, legal documents, and horrifying press conferences. Yes, I do know what’s in the infrastructure bill.

5029

Yep. That’s the point. It’s a point that people can disagree on, but are more likely to just yell past.

5030

Meanwhile, there is an actual bill that could have been signed 3 weeks ago.
But you decided to take your own party hostage.

Correct.

No, that’s not correct. That’s just a messed up idea you got put into your head by the far left. It’s not remotely in touch with reality.

If you passed “only” the infrastructure bill, you’ll have passed a gigantic legislative achievement. You’ll have achieved in 2 years more than Trump did in 4. It’d be huge.

And it would play especially well in exactly those districts that you need to win in.

But the thing is, Manchin and Sinema will definitely negotiate for a reconciliation bill that has lots of stuff you want. They are in fact democrats! They actually share lots of the same principles as you even if you’ve lost sight of that.

You might not be able to force them to do stuff they don’t want to do… but you know what? You can’t do that anyway. If the democrats get fucked over in 2022, it ain’t gonna be Manchin and Sinema who lose their seats.

You need to negotiate with them as allies, not as people you need to force to vote your way.

And the reason you need to do that? Because you have ZERO majority in the Senate. Even in the house you basically have no majority at all. It’s not like the democrats have some giant mandate to pull a New Deal… You don’t have the huge majorities that people like FDR or Johnson held. You got the speakership by the skin of your teeth, and the leadership in the senate by less than that. You better hope none of those old dudes drops dead from old age.

If you’re able to turn that into “only” the largest infrastructure bill in decades, that’d be a fucking miracle achievement!

The idea that any of you thought you were gonna pass, what was Bernie’s fantasy number? 6 trillion? 8? With an 8 seat majority in the house and only 50 senators? What are you freaking smoking? It’s like you guys have no contact with the real world sometimes.

And yet you said:
“When the midterms come around minimal road and bridge maintenance won’t move anyone. And that’s all the infrastructure bill really is.”

Which, if you know what is in the bill, you know is totally false.

5031

No, it’s not totally false. Sure, call it a bit of hyperbole. Clearly it’s not just roads and bridges and quite obviously to anyone not determined to talk past everyone else I’m using that description because it’s a common colloquialism used to describe the type of infrastructure the bill generally covers. The point is that it is not enough. It’s maintenance not progress (and yes, there are minor bits and pieces that can be considered progress in a certain light but the point is it is not enough).

5032

Right, because Manchin and Sinema are holding things up. Glad we finally can agree.

5033

It’s the never-Trumpers, Manchin, and Sinema who held the party hostage.
I had a feeling this would happen, but Biden not being Obama gave me some optimism.

Biden’s the only institutionalist who seems to get it, probably because he’s the only one who remembers life before Reagan destroyed America.

5034

I believe that the amount allocated to roads and bridges is around 20% of the total new spending, right?

Or are you trying to say things like ports, rail, electrical grid, water systems, are all under what you were calling “roads and bridges”?

Yeah, that’s why you need a bigger majority if you want to ignore them.

It’s the same reason the Progressives in the house have so much power right now.

No dude. They passed a law, and everyone agreed it’s great.

It’s the progressives who are threatening to blow up their own party, if they don’t get their way.

You could just pass the infrastructure bill, and then negotiate for more stuff in the reconciliation bill… You wouldn’t get everything you want, because some of that stuff Manchin won’t want. But… that’s ok? The idea that you should hold your own legislation hostage, in order to try and force him to vote for stuff he doesn’t want to vote for, is a bad plan.

5035

Most of the funds in the BIF aren’t being allocated until the end of FY 2022. It also is going to lead to more airport expansions and new roads, and new roads leads to more sprawl, and more sprawl leads to more GHG emissions. It’s also a big win for private equity, which explains Wall Street’s enthusiastic support (but yes, there’s some crumbs in it that everyone wants.)

And if only that is passed, Manchin and Sinema have no reason whatsoever to support the BBB which is Biden’s agenda that he ran on, not something progressives came up with on their own.

But yes please, let’s blame this on the progressives while the adults in the room stay busy cooking the planet.

5036

No,

The median American household consists of a man and a woman, they are 38 years, they make $69,000, they have some college, they own a house with a mortgage, they have no children (although 40% do). They get health insurance via their employee and pay $100/month plus copays. Their parents are in their early 60s, don’t need hearing aids and have enough money to pay for glasses.

There isn’t a damn thing in the BBB bill that helps them. But they will hear plenty about arguments should cut off of the child tax credit and be $150K or $400K. The senior down the block that took a nice cruise to Europe this year, and will get $2000 check to buy hearing aids, or a dental implant. Some decent percent of Joe and Jill average will wonder why I’m paying taxes to help folks, who have kids, have more income, or more wealth.

But they benefit from the infrastructure bill.

Now maybe you are right, this will help the Democrats in 2022 and 2024. I’m far from sure. But remember it doesn’t matter how many Democrats vote, in California, or Hawaii, or Mass. or NY.

The only Democrats that count are the ones in place like Timex’s PA. The rest are pretty much irrelevant other than in the handful of competitive districts and states.

5037

Well… of course. It’s a multiyear plan.
They’d be allocating over $20 billion in new spending in the first year.

Except for the fact that they’re also democrats, and some of that stuff they support.