The Moderates/Conservatives can’t complain that the Progressives won’t pass the Compromise because there was no deal there either.
There was a working model laid out though.
That is very narrow.
Fine, despite the fact that everyone knew that both bills would need to at least be sent to the house before any voting would happen in the House, I guess no one wrote up an agreement in blood that said that would happen.
Just talked about it. And made their positions known beforehand.
Now you’re just being churlish and silly. Manchin was not an open party to any such agreement, and pretending he was is pointless. It doesn’t harm the progressive position in any way to grant that point, and it doesn’t do their cause any good to wrongly pretend that he was. With respect to Manchin, there was no such agreement to write up in blood or any other medium. That’s probably why Biden almost immediately walked the promise back — because Manchin wasn’t committed to it.
Machin had to be well aware that his ‘grand compromise’ would not get traction with house progressives without the BBB.
So, whether he agreed with the BBB or not, some version would have to pass, which he would need to be part of.
Or nothing passes.
Or he’s playing chicken with the House progressives. And vice versa.
Without knowing what was said privately, it’s hard to tell. For me at least.
He didn’t make any grand tit-for-tat compromise. He just voted to pass a bill he wanted to pass, with no open promise to do anything else.
I mean, I can’t find any story where he does anything except express support for the bipartisan bill and cast doubt on the reconciliation bill. None.
Would you expect him to, if there are negotiations going on? This isn’t a compromise with the Senate, this is a compromise between Manchin (and the Senate) and the House Progressives (and to a lesser extent Biden and the Speaker).
We knew from the start that the House Progressives and Biden wanted a much larger, more expansive deal (that happened to also be more expensive for the wealthy) and that Machin’s deal wasn’t going to satisfy that deal.
And Manchin knew that as well. Heck, the GOP complained loudly that the Democrats would pass both the Compromise bill and the Reconciliation Bill, so even the GOP know what was going on.
So, I really don’t think what Manchin expressed in public has anything to do with the whole negotiation. I don’t fault the guy for staking out a position that fits his interest. I fault the guy for not compromising with the progressives to get what he wants, and playing chicken with the US.
Do I find fault with the Progressives? Actually no, because, they have, in the past, time and time again, been willing to compromise, while Manchin, the GOP, and the Conservative Blue Dog Democrats continue to be Lucy with the Football.
So, just this once, Charlie Brown deciding not to kick the football seems like a pretty fair response to the whole situation, and pretty much the only rational thing to do.
I would expect him to if he were a party to the compromise. He wasn’t.
Talking to you is so often like talking to a brick wall. You simply fail to / refuse to grasp what people are objecting to in your argument, and instead you just keep repeating it. Progressives are right to think that some people are betraying a promise to tie the two votes together, but Manchin isn’t one of the people betraying that promise. He never made it, so you can’t really accuse him of betraying it. You can be mad at him about many things, but this is not one of those things.
- Manchin said Sunday he would support a $2 trillion Democratic-only infrastructure plan.
Sen. Joe Manchin said Sunday that he could support a $2 trillion Democratic-only infrastructure plan. It suggests Senate Democrats may have to significantly curtail their ambitions to earn Manchin’s vote.
I don’t know how to take this quote. He literally said that he could support a bill that was democrat only. He also said he wasn’t promising to vote for it later on, but it depended on the text.
Okay, but when the Senate, the House and the White House literally asked him what he wanted, he does nothing.
If that isn’t Lucy and the Football, then I’m not sure what is.
In either case, the only thing holding all of this up is the Senate.
From the source you just quoted:
Manchin hasn’t pledged to vote for a party-line package, and only said he would consider supporting a plan after it’s fully drafted. “We have to look at reconciliation,” he told Insider on Thursday.
That’s not a promise to do anything at all.
Sure, instead he just said he could support a bill.
And everyone said “Great, what do you want in it?”
To make a pretty simple analogy.
Joe Manchin is asked if he could support buying Pizza. And his response is, “I could support buying pizza, but it depends on the Toppings”
Then the response is “Okay, what toppings do you want on your Pizza”
And his response is…?
Currently, his response seems to be “I hate Pizza and never promised to buy pizza”
Which is true. He just said he could support Pizza, and then be given a choice of whatever pizza he wanted.
Honestly, it seems like a lie, just with more effort.
Sure, he’s a liar. But he never promised a tit-for-tat exchange in the two bills, and he never promised that they would be passed together.
The House did though based on the fact that Manchin said he could support a bill.
So, the house is holding him to that statement. Regardless of the promise, the ball is in Manchin’s court.
As I see it, Manchin said he could support a Reconciliation Bill.
The House is saying, great, so pass one.
And now we are waiting to see what Manchin comes up with.
I just repeat myself, and then quit.
@scottagibson, I don’t know how to tell you this, but I think you have our roles reversed in this matter.
I’m providing you with evidence, and all you are doing is repeating the same lines over and over again.
I’m doing the work in this conversation, while you seem to be doing is saying “No he didn’t, no he didn’t”.
Well, in point of fact, he did say, out loud and on TV, that some sort of Reconciliation Bill could be supported by him. He opened the door to it.
The fact that he said “I don’t make promises” means nothing in this context because the context was someone else crafting a bill.
Look above at my finely crafted Pizza Analogy above. I realize it’s a strong analogy, and I think you’ll find it’s very much sums up my point.
But I’ve said my piece. It’s a good piece.
vyshka
5196
I doubt they get him to a yes. How many weeks has he had to study this shit?
Jeez Louise. Thanks Manchin, for making life easier for Mitch McConnell, Trump and his Fascist contingent, you old careerist fuck.
The economy will be fine (the temporary bump in inflation is entirely down to Covid’s impact on our trading partners). The national debt is not going to be an issue as long as people want to sell us shit and invest money here.
Manchin is full of shit, news at 11.
He’s been dragging this out for weeks for no apparent reason. I don’t think he ever intended to let it pass, and I don’t think it will ever pass. Game over, Republicans take back both houses next year :(
Alstein
5199
Manchin and Sinema likely prefer being in the minority.
