@rrmorton, I’m so happy for you and your family. What a great treat not just for you, but for those of us in the thread. And you should definitely write a letter!

-Tom

Costco can also probably ship directly from the foreign locations more easily, I assume. That federal law that requires all shipping within the United States to be sent by US built and owned ships is rather pricey.

Thanks, Tom! Much appreciated.

It could in theory, in practice according to my friend who works at Costco everything is shipped into LA and then shipped back to Hawaii.

You probably did just fine! If it were me and my weird sense of humor, I’d of ended up congratulating him on a successful colonoscopy. At which point secret service would have probably tackled me. :P

I have a feeling he felt the love, but a letter is a good idea! (Cut to five years from now and rrmorton and family are dining at the Bidens’ thanksgiving table…)

Haha! That’s true, I could’ve used the ol’ colonoscopy icebreaker.

I think it was reading the phrase “once-in-a-lifetime” from a friend on facebook that triggered this for me. Like, if you asked me what I would say to Joe Biden if given the chance, I would’ve taken that question seriously and given it proper thought. I had a good half hour in the store before he arrived where my brain should’ve gone there, but I was too dumbfounded and awestruck to take proper advantage of the moment.

But I’m sure this is a common sentiment. And, as we’ve said, that’s where a letter after-the-fact can come in handy! :)

Not everything in those bills was about strengthening small businesses, and a lot of it does so indirectly. This is all great; I hope it passes, I wish the 3 trillion version had passed!

But what I’m (naively, I’m sure) actually promoting here is a much bigger change in priority, which is actually aimed at getting rid of humungous corporations wherever possible and preparing smaller businesses to take their place. As Strollen says, politicians have been pandering to small businesses for decades. Meanwhile huge multinational corporations have continued to grow in market share, geographical footprint, and power over our lives. I’m in favor of doing something radical to reverse that instead of the usual cant + emergency loans that run out in three days (and which the big companies can often get their hands on thanks to loopholes).

All true! None of those things I listed are guaranteed, and some require policy movement on other fronts (like urban planning). But most of them are antithetical to or impossible for a global megacorp. To give them their due, big big companies can donate huge sums (usually to huge global charities) and they are often institutionally more socially progressive by default. (They also generally do those things for reputational/PR reasons.)

I support that, but if it’s just trying to soak off of big corps to fund federal programs while they continue to grow, then it’s not enough. I want to disincentivize companies over a few hundred employees, and massively disincentivize companies over a few thousand. Then work the other side of the ledger and give subsidies directly to small businesses that operate, hire, and provide locally and regionally.

The cultural expectation that constant exponential growth is the aim of a business is toxic and destructive. We need to reverse the mentality of entrepreneurs (or, really, encourage the emergence of a new kind of entrepreneur) to be focused on providing sustainable goods to a specific community, through both its services, and jobs it provides. I would use taxation to make growth and economies of scale beyond a certain level not profitable.

Those breaks exist because the costs would typically be too big a portion of their revenue, right? So let’s make them so they’re not always clinging to the edge of viability and then start holding them to account for how they treat their workers, the environment, etc. Even if it’s hard to hold them to account, a town full of cash-flush businesses will start to offer benefits and wages that will attract folks away from the ones who stay stingy.

Emergency funds are for digging folks out of holes, not building them up.

Huge retailers do this stuff because they can afford to, thanks to economies of scale and a toleration for waste. If small businesses’ margins were bigger, they would provide them too. But I also oppose fetishizing the convenience of consumers. In a true community, people (including businesspeople) are participants in the life of that community, not isolated actors trying to maximize their personal gain. It’s impossible to think of a faceless global corporation like Amazon as part of our community, so we obsess over discounts and how next-day shipping is even better than two-day shipping, etc. We think differently–or at least can think differently–about our local bookshop.

(I don’t know if this is a bigger tangent than a thread like this usually accommodates, but I’m happy if a mod wants to split this off into a new thread.)

And this is where, I think, your argument fundamentally fails. This has never been true at scale. Sure you can find individual examples where this may have been true, but writ large human history has largely been one where those with power and property leverage that to extract more at the expense of those around them. Everything from feudal estates to company towns where employees were paid in scrip.

In a very real sense those were examples where the proprietors were part of the community, in fact they largely controlled and ruled said community. Yet they are hardly examples of the kind of social benevolence you naively posit. Itd be nice if that existed, but by and large that has never been the true state of things. There is no reason to believe a small business would treat employees better or be more community minded than a large one. The most degrading and toxic work environment I’ve ever had was at a small company where I knew the owners personally. The most positive one at the largest company I’ve worked for, one measured in the tens of thousands of employees, and they are also the most community minded and socially conscious one as well.

You cling to a return to an economic system that never was.

Allow me to throw my anecdata onto the pile labeled “small businesses are the worst.”

Actually the last one I worked for was pretty decent, just had garbage benefits and a deep unwillingness to accept the realities of the labor market for my skillset besides.

Previous to that, though, hard pass.

I do think there’s a lot to be said for collective action to work against the tendency of capitalist systems to accumulate and concentrate capital over time. I have no idea what to do about that off the top of my head, beyond taxing the absolute pants off of the extremely wealthy, but it’s something we need to do or the pitchforks will do it instead.

Using knowledge economy skill sets and industry standards as examples of why small businesses suck is a bit like being an actor making a career off-Broadway and explaining how horrible the marketplace off-Broadway is.

There a bit of “everyone should be a coder!” myopia here.

My previous career was in manufacturing, so your counterpoint does not pass muster.

Also my post included feudal land systems and 19th century robber baron capitalism, and so is decidedly not based on modern knowledge economy systems.

I met Bill Clinton once when he was running for President in 1992. He had just spoken at the Kennedy School of Government, and afterwards, we could stand in line to shake his hand and then move along. Of course, Clinton being Clinton, he stood around shaking hands and chatting long after he’d given his speech.

I stood in that line and I shook his hand. I don’t remember what I said, but I remember my brain buzzing with that same sentiment you’re talking about: once in a lifetime chance, meeting one of the most powerful and beloved men in the world, the line is shortening and I’m coming up to him, what do I say? Now, it was 1992, so I was a dumb kid and back then, I probably didn’t have the introspection to think anything other than “Nailed it!”. I’m sure I said something about being from Arkansas and being proud to be able to vote for him. Like I said, I don’t remember, but I know I gave it a lot of thought while waiting in line.

So I know if I were in your situation, there’s no way I would have been able to say as much as I wanted to say. But I don’t doubt that a man like Biden feels it coming off you, @rrmorton. That sense of gratitude and appreciation. Biden is nothing if not empathetic. Anyway, I loved reading your story. That’s just such a cool thing to have happened to you and your family.

-Tom

I have not always been a knowledge worker, much less in any situation nearly as favorable as my current.

If it never was, then the correct verb is “build” instead of “return to.” I fully admit I may be naive (including a couple times already in this discussion), but I don’t want to inflict more global capitalism on my kids and grandkids, etc., so what else should I be hoping for?

BTW, I picked up this general trajectory of thinking from fellow naifs EF Schumacher and Bill McKibben and others. There are dozens of us!

I think this is a real problem with capitalism elevated to the cultural imperative that it is in modern times.

So which is it do you want them to grow or not to grow? I assume you want them to grow just enough to be regulated by the government so they can provide better wages for employees. . How big is that; 100 employees? a 1,000, 10,000?. You talk about them being local and regional firms, roughly how big an area do they serve?

Not really. All of these dangerous companies, start off as small, many aren’t in the tech field, and some are much younger than mom&pop stores they threaten.

In fact if we simply limited the discussion to retailers, I’ll show why small=good, big = bad, is generally wrong.

Costco started in 1976, the same year as Apple. James Sinegal, co-founder, strategy was tp utilize warehouses to save cost, pay employees well and provide them benefits. The third principle, mark-up no product more than 25% was pretty revolutionary when the industry standard (keystone) markup is 100% from wholesale retail. I believe they offered their no-question return policy early on also.
Now you make call the customer fetishizing. I call it a great business strategy. I know when I buy something I Costco, I’m not getting ripped and if I’m unhappy and I can return it Costco grew long before they can gained any benefits of economy of scale.

The same thing is true for both Amazon and Walmart, they found an underserved market online, and small towns, and then focused on the customer providing them low prices, large selection, and good service. As far as employees go they were followers paying what the market required. Both were doing well before they had any economies of scaling, buying power, distribution network, fantastic tracking systems, by simply focusing on underserved customers.

As far, I’m concerned the first priority of any business has to be to serve their customers. Smart businesses know that treating their employees well generally results in happier customers. Therefore, when a book store tells me you can NOT return a book, after deciding you don’t like it. My attitude is you are implying that I’m dishonest, that I’m going finish the book and return it to you. I don’t do that; so when I competitor trusts me and offers lower prices to boot, I’m taking my business there.

Bro, you gotta update your list. Costco can help you get jacked if you buy the right stuff, bro.

It’s cold out there. Stay swole.

Got an example?