This is a way of saying yes, the questions are there, but there are other words that aren’t there.
Put another way, you’re just making things up. Maybe there is more explanation, but you don’t know what it is, and you’re just going to assume that it is bad.
This is really a funny argument. You start by claiming the poll is baked without ever addressing how it is baked.
You claim all Republicans lie on polls without ever considering that such a thing simply can’t be possible given that we have seen the outcomes of polled elections, which demonstrate pretty clearly that most Republicans told the truth on the polls leading up to the election.
You claim the actual questions are a secret, and then when I point to them, since they’ve been there all along, you claim that it is something else that is a secret, but you can’t say how you know there is a secret or how that secret means the poll is baked.
I can’t even figure out why you insist the poll results can’t be right. Especially when you acknowledge this:
Put another way, you’re not at all surprised that West Virginians were happy to get free money from the government when it was a COVID relief check, but you simply can’t believe that West Virginians would like to keep getting free money from the government in the form of refundable child tax credits. The former poll result is obvious and hardly surprising at all to you, while the latter is impossible, even though they are both about the same general class of thing — free money from the government — and both results are from the same poll!
I don’t care whether you believe the poll or not. I think it’s hardly a surprising result in that we’ve seen for years that lots of Republican voters like progressive policy when they’re polled on the policy itself rather than simply polled on partisan generalities. Poor West Virginians want help from the government, just as every poor person everywhere does. Duh!
Look it’s really exhausting being so spineless and ineffective.
Alstein
5968
time to primary Manchin in 2024 and punish Manchin after 2022, even if his seat goes to a Republican. He’s effectively a Republican at this point.
Hell, you throw Manchin out, you can at least use the excuse of Republicans blocking things in the Senate.
I wouldn’t even trust Manchin to say yes to a progressive justice.
This correction made me wonder what party they attributed Sanders to lol.
CORRECTION: An earlier version of this story incorrectly identified Bernie Sanders’ political affiliation.
“Communist Party leader Bernie Sanders said today…”
This is just wrongheaded. Control of the Senate still matters for some things, and those things remain important, and forcing Manchin out means getting a Republican from WV instead. The thing to do is win Senate seats elsewhere, so you don’t have to rely only on Manchin’s vote.
Alstein
5970
I agree, but at some point you have to enforce some discipline.
That’s why I said after 2022. (unless you end up with 50 again somehow).
Those darn progressives! Now we’ll never pass BBB.
shakes fist
This was Manchin’s original agreement with Schumer on BBB:
Yes, fair enough. I just don’t think you want to torpedo his chances for 2024, or force him to switch parties after 2022, since you might need that 50th vote again.
Sharpe
5974
The bigger picture here is that the Dems never had a “true majority” in the Senate with Manchin. They had a “limited partial majority”. Hindsight is 20/20 but I also feel like people like Schumer et. al. are SUPPOSED to know how their caucus members are swinging. I can’t escape the feeling that at the high level of the Senate Dems, they royally F’ed up in not understanding where Manchin has been this whole time. To me, Manchin was NEVER going to vote for BBB and we should have adjusted to that reality six months ago.
Sigh. OTOH, I’m trying not to think about tactics b/c that’s unpredictable and for chumps besides. But, how did Schumer not know how this was going to play out?
Maybe. They did have his signature on that piece of paper, and his position now (I won’t vote for anything) is definitely a change from the commitment on that piece of paper. I imagine they understood that as what he was already committed to and have been negotiating to get more from him. Him saying now that he isn’t committed to that document even if they meet all his demands can’t be what they were reasonably expecting.
Enidigm
5976
I said this before but I’m pretty sure - and seem more sure now - that Manchin was playing both sides to gain clout for a future party switch with the GOP. If the Senate flips to GOP in 2022 I’m giving Manchin a 75% chance to flip now. He’s not going to die on that hill of fighting a rearguard action against a resurgent GOP.
Ie, to me Manchin was purposefully screwing with the BBB in order to sabotage it. He never had any intention of passing a bill sponsored by only Democrats and will probably not vote for any party-line legislation in 2022 regardless of the bill. The details of any legislation are irrelevant and spending time discussing them from him is just burning time. The only way he votes for anything is if it’s cosponsored.
Yep, a bad faith asshole after all.
Alstein
5978
Schumer is a minnow compared to Pelosi- he’s the one who annoited Cal Cunningham in NC. I’ll never forgive him for that.
Aceris
5979
Indeed. I don’t get Manchin at all. He had the leverage to write a good portion of a $1.5 trn bill to include stuff that was popular in his state and take the credit for it, but instead he torpedos the whole thing, after getting almost everything he asked for.
And then Democrats still pussyfoot around him by staying schtum so the coverage goes with Bernie Sanders criticism, which is basically doing Manchin a massive solid with his voters.
Turns out Manchin gave Biden his own $1.8T plan on Tuesday. No wonder the WH is surprised by today’s news.
I hope he lives long enough for his grandchildren to ask him why, when he had an opportunity to actually do something substantive on climate change, he chose not to.
“Boy (or Little lady, don’t want to assume), Maserati’s were expensive.”
Dejin
5983
Given the fact that he founded a Coal Brokerage, which is currently run by his son, I’m pretty sure his grandchildren are more likely than not to be in the “I got mine, I’m rich enough to buy property in the shrinking number of non-hellhole places on the planet.”
It’s funny, a few years ago I’d never even heard of Manchin, now I hate him with the fire and fury of a thousand suns.
