Exactly Democrats have 49.4 votes (48 votes +70% of Manchin and Sinema) in the Senate for things like BBB, maybe less. I think there were other folks like Tester, who weren’t jumping up and down to vote for BBB. It is the same way that Republicans didn’t have 50+ votes to get rid of ACA. Purely partisan bills don’t do well with Senators in swing states.
Manchin, needed some political cover from Repubicans to vote for BBB. I don’t think Manchin gets the level of compromise that would have been needed to get Republicans on board with BBB. I think it would have required things like dropping the vaccine mandate, and all Jan 6th investigations, essentially things that would have caused scores of Democrats to vote against it.
This is kind of…scorched earth?
I mean, I agree with most of this, except for the bit about saying it’s a partisan bill. It’s only ‘partisan’ because it is proposed by a Democratic President who the Republicans want to destroy. It’s actually full of good stuff, stuff I think even you yourself have praised before, way up there somewhere ☝️
RichVR
5988
Manchin: I can’t hear you over the sound of all of this coal money.
Sure, but Fuck Joe Manchin he’s a fucking liar is quite a response. Not one you’d think would work if there was any chance of a deal.
RichVR
5990
Agreed. But a single statement isn’t enough by far. They have to keep pounding this drum.
I dunno. I can’t see them getting him to change his mind by lighting him on fire. I think that just sends him to the other camp. It sounds to me like they’ve given up on him. But I am not a professional!
Enidigm
5992
There’s probably a couple things - it’s time for Democrats to start dying on hills, and it’s time for Republicans (or quasi-Republicans) to start admitting they’re leading the Persians on secret paths over the passes into the hills.
I’m just some guy and probably full of shit and I can’t help like everyone have strong opinions that are mostly uneducated and full of guesses, but generally I think the public really overthinks what pols are thinking or doing, like they’re always playing 3D chess or something.
Just IMO but Manchin is a used-car salesman hack who has survived by being able year after year to sell that undercoat you don’t need. All these elegies about how wise he’s been over the years is mistaking political instinct for political and policy wisdom. Post-Trump it’s clear these are not just decoupled but perhaps even at odds. People act surprised about what he did or did not miss by failing to support the BBB. Personally I suspect that like most politicians he doesn’t actually give a shit what’s in any particular bill. He’s measuring what does supporting this bill gain me, and what does supporting this bill cost me. And in this case you’ve got evidence this is close to 100% probable of being true, since his actions and his positions are constantly at odds.
And imo right now directly supporting a purely Democratic bill is going to cost him.
That’s… fine. The bad faith part is when he pretends he’s going to support it, strings everyone along, and then changes his mind at the last minute. At that point he looks more like a double agent in the employ of the Sinclair Group and the Koch Bros than a politician acting in anything like good faith. And this happened probably because he overplayed, because he’s also an egotistical car salesman that likes the sound of his own voice, that wants to be the most important person in the world for as long as possible. But when it’s clear you’re full of it, the mystique dies on the vine.
The Democrats have for too long accepted duplicity and denigration in order to cling onto to what little power they have, to retain some power and keep the wolves at bay. But it looks like the wolves are going through the gates no matter what they do. Why mince words about it? May as well go down fighting.
Aceris
5993
Yeah. If BBB goes down because of Manchin (and it sure looks like it has) then the White House absolutely has to get angry. Pissing off the senator from West Virginia is going to hurt a lot less than pissing off all the democrats who wanted this thing to pass by looking like they don’t give a damn.
RichVR
5994
They say they are now going to go hard on passing a voting rights bill. And I am certainly for that. That might be more important than the BBB in the long run.
Is that any more likely to pass?
Not snark, I’m genuinely asking. I thought Manchin was at one point on board with voting rights legislation. Is Sinema?
Menzo
5996
Nope, it won’t pass either.
RichVR
5997
I don’t know. But I would hope that they try. Very hard. Manchin has no reason not to vote for it. He’s the guy in WV. It doesn’t affect his grift. The people who pay him to fuck shit up are too rich to care.
I’m whistling past a graveyard here, right? I know.
Edit: Then go all out. Pack the Supreme court. Primary all the assholes.
vyshka
5998
Pretty sure Sinema said she won’t sign on to anything that doesn’t get 60 votes
$5 says Biden doesn’t pass any additional significant legislation apart from modest reconciliation bills and the occasional can down the road debt ceiling increases for the remainder of his term, which will be a single one as Republicans capitalize on their federal obstruction lockdown and state level election theft to take all sectors of government by 2024.
Enidigm
6000
This is why I’m pretty skeptical of “buckle down” types of political forecasting for what the future holds for Democratic voters. As long as we’ll be alive no further GOP Senate will allow a single thing to pass by any Democratic government unless it’s bipartisan or actually submitted by the GOP. The only legitimate government will be a GOP government. Since there’s no hope of the GOP losing all but 17 states (or 34 senators) in anything like… a lifetime or two, I don’t know what those council patience and the long view are expecting.
Actually I think they just don’t want to look in the crystal ball at all.
Thing is, unless every poll and analyst is totally wrong, in terms off absolute numbers of adult potential voters, the GOP does not have a majority. Their power is a product of how power is distributed by the federal system, a product of deliberate gerrymandering, and voter suppression. Eventually you would think the majority of people who are getting shafted here would say enough is enough. But then, it may well be that the fascists have finally figured out the Holy Grail of electoral politics, a way to establish a perpetual minority rule based on permanent divide and conquer. Though I suspect this only works for as long as they can buy off the bulk of their supporters with material prosperity, as pure cultural hatred is probably going to lack enough staying power on its own.
Alstein
6002
Schumer has to pound the drum. Manchin knows he’ll have no future as a Republican- he either plays ball or he’s a lame duck.
Menzo
6003
Citation please. He’s basically single-handedly thwarting the Democratic agenda. He’ll be rewarded when he switches sides in January 2023 and joins the new Republican majority.
