1717

Elections have consequences.

1718

Heh, now we’re getting somewhere.

The whole system just needs a new look over. To many people hold dear ideals built upon a foundation of real ugliness; only some dont know it.

1719

Amen to this.

1720

“underpants gnomes” is a good description of that plan. :-)

1721

Yup, screw 67 votes especially, that’s crazypants.

1722

Oh my goodness yes. Sad that the LITERAL CORE TENET of “rule of law” is a thing that we have to hope a Democratic administration can sneak a distinguished career civil servant through a traitorous Senate minority to enjoy here in 2021, but hey, Republicans are literally all traitors and cowards so here we are.

1723

I think the key element is the notion of a filibuster which has a time limit built into it. So the minority can potentially slow progress on things they oppose strongly, but they cannot STOP progress for more than a few weeks, tops.

I would force the talking filibuster earlier in the timeline than what Velegon proposed though.

1724

I guess the question is: to what end? Is if to provide time for actual debate, which seems pretty pointless in the modern world? Is it to allow time for Senators to educate their constituents and gather feedback about how their constituents feel? Also seems pretty pointless in the modern world, but it is at least a mechanism by which a delay might be useful.

1725

Yes, precisely. Legislation in the Senate does not exactly move fast, and it is always accompanied by a period of debate, and nothing comes up in the Senate anyway that hasn’t been discussed in the media for months already. Given all that, what is the virtue of creating a delaying mechanism? And if a delaying mechanism is what you want, why not a rule that says there must be X numbers of weeks between when a bill is put on the agenda and when it can come up for a vote, for whatever value of X you think is necessary? And that this rule can be overruled by a sufficient majority of the Senate, so they can act quickly when it is called for.

1726

The US “filibuster” is just weird. The filibuster, at least as I see it in Canada is a procedural move to stall passage of legislation that a party in opposition wants to draw a lot of attention to. It won’t stop a majority government from passing the legislation, but it will draw attention to it, and possibly generate public pressure to amend the legislation. Members of Parliament cannot just declare a filibuster. They must do the physically exhausting work of talking, and talking, and talking. This means that it isn’t used just for sake of obstructionism, or even on small matters, but used when the party feels very strongly about making a show of opposing the legislation.

Why not make the senators talk and talk if they really want to filibuster?

1727

Because they’re old and make their own rules.

Seriously, that’s basically it.

1728

They did it because the Senators got tired of being there all the time. That’s what has to change.

1729

I like the good old days when the time limit was the point at which Jimmy Stewart passed out.

1730

I think the stuff you describe here is a decent summary of the situation

I would imagine that a delay would give the minority time to plead their case to the American people, and potentially shift public opinion before a vote, which could then potentially force changes on the part of the majority party.

1731

Again, the most recent example of passage is the Covid relief bill. It was formally proposed by the WH on January 20. The House and Senate both took it up for debate and committee action on Feb 2. A draft of the bill was released by the House on Feb 8, and the full text of the bill was released on the 19th. The House committees finished with it on the 22nd of Feb, reported it out on the 24th of Feb, then passed it three days later, on 27 Feb, and sent it over to the Senate.

In the Senate, meanwhile, Republicans engaged with the proposal as early as 1 Feb, by offering up a counter proposal to the plan, and negotiations and informal debate went on all of February. The Senate released their version of the bill on March 4, then held a formal debate, then held a formal amendment session on the bill, where every Senator could offer amendments, debate them, and vote on them. They passed the bill on the 6th, sending it back to the House for final passage.

So, from formal announcement to passage in the Senate was about 45 days. Hardly a runaway train, and this was a particularly fast passage for a bill of this size and scope. How much more time does the minority need?

1732
1733

Woohoo! I look forward to 100% of mine going toward a substantial medical debt I accrued over the lockdown. On the other hand, that’s $1370.12 I don’t have to worry about pretending like I have, either :)

1734

Food, bills, and cover my HOTAS! :)

1735

Overdue tickets that the wife’s daughter got on her insurance. So that our car can be insured and the license renewed. HOA fees and property tax. We may be able to keep our house and car.

1736

Hey, my car needed about $1,400 worth of work this past month.

So Uncle Sam basically covered the repairs.