4214

Leaving aside gun rights (which, honestly, is just US being insane), if people were out there protesting abortion rights or other obviously deeply held issues… I’d say that’s their right. I’d think people protesting abortion rights are misguided, but not because of Covid-19.

People are not protesting BLM just for themselves - they’re protesting because they see an injustice being perpetrated, and recognize that such injustice has been going on for generations, and will continue going on for generations if no one does something. They’re protesting because some things are worth laying down your life for.

4215

Not getting shot is a lot more important than not getting a haircut.

4216

@Enidigm did pretty good job of summarizing my issues.

Just to be clear, after 12 days of protest, I think the million folks or so at Washington should be considered the capstone of the movement. Public health official and politician should now be calling for an end to these protests, especially in areas with increasing number of Covid-19 cases and/or current active cases at certain levels.

There needs to be massive public education process. Anybody who’s been to protest in the last week needs to either self-quarantine for 14-days or get tested. Since we know self-quarantine is really hard for most poor people. We need to be setting up testing station near the protest site and through out poor neighborhoods. We have to get the folks with Covid-19 who are protesting off the damn streets now.

Here is why.
Objectively, the protests have been remarkably peaceful and the incidents of police brutality have been relatively small. Although, a significant chunk of American would disagree with my assessment
The public is largely supportive of the protest. The longer they keep going the more chance the turn more violent on both sides, hurting public support.
The incremental benefits of continue to protest are small. What really is going to be said in the next week that hasn’t been said in the last two week? What legislation do we think is magically going to be passed. Hell we can’t even get bill opposing bloody lynching out of Congress. Please explain to me the tangible benefits of another week of protesting?

All of this would be true in absence of a pandemic.

But we have one and it is deadly. I see 1,000+ people dying a day of this thing for the rest of the year and I’m scared it goes back up to 2-3,000. Our only hope is to collect more data, figure out what works, and then listen to the experts.

Right now the 40% of Americans who supported Trump, heard liberals scream about how dangerous it was for protesters to go to state capitals with their guns. How dumb people were to go the beach, and callous governors who allowed restaurants to open were risking lives. And how incredibly selfish and stupid were the kids who went to the pool party in the Ozark. Because they were risking killing everyone’s grandpa and grandma.

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More people wear mask at BLM protests than this pool party, but not everyone wears mask. Many of the protests look to me even more crowded, and there are lots more shouting, and singing. There are lovely pictures of cops and protesters hugging, but guess what your asking to be infected when you do that. And that’s before the tear gas goes off, good luck not rubbing your face after you’ve been tear gassed.

Either Ozark pool parties and BLM protests are safe or they are not. You can’t have one be safe and the other not.

I suspect that average BLM protester of any race, believes that average black person has a far higher chance of being killed by a cop, than dying of Covid-19, they don’t and it is time, for experts start saying it.

Our only hope of getting through this thing with less than 500,000 dead Americans if we consistently get accurate scientific data from experts, and we listen to it. It is going to be hard to blame conservatives, who think this is liberal hoax if they Public health experts explain while the pool party is bad , and the protest is good. If they stop wearing masks, isolating themselves, we are all in trouble.

4217

I still don’t understand how risking infection by attending a pool party for chicks and drinks is the same thing as risking infection by attending a protest seeking liberty and justice for oppressed humans. Who thinks that?

4218

Geez, don’t you get it. You aren’t just risking your own life. You are risking the lives of parents, your co-worker, the guy at the grocery store, the whole community is at risk by your action. The virus doesn’t give you a shit if you increased community transmission for a noble cause or because you want to bang chicks.

I want to know what tangible benefit is going to come from more protesting, before I’m ok with you killing more members of society. It is really not too much to ask.

4219

Fundamental change in how police operate, and the erosion of racsism in all sectors of life around the globe

4220

I do get it. All too well. And I also get that you will never truly get it because you can’t get it. And that’s fine. Lives are at risk in different ways. One way doesn’t really affect you in the same way it has others. I can sleep fine at night knowing I took a risk for a cause for more noble than sitting in a pool.

4221

And you think another week of protesting is somehow going magically accelerate erosion, because of what reasons exactly? I get it this is different because Trump is so awful?

4222

I hope you got tested.

4223

It already is eroding it. There is nothing magical about it, and Trump has little to do with it. Every day that people stand together the human race gets stronger. Division and hatred and conflict with the “other” is a leech on society and its productivity.

4224

Right there is your problem. That’s not how this works, and as more and more data comes in, it should be pretty apparent that there are a multitude of factors regarding the transmission of the coronavirus that medical science hasn’t fully worked out yet.

So yeah. That’s the base error in the bad data you’ve fed into your own mental computer. And now all of the output based around it is now also flawed.

4225

You guys can go around and around on this, but frankly I think @Strollen is correct. I get the argument that this cause is worth risking lives for while that cause is frivolous, but it’s the same argument from the other side. To some of those folks the existential threat of not working and losing their property is more pertinent to their lives than a cop killing them. You and I may say that’s because they live a life of majority privilege, but to them it’s their reality. We can laugh and say, “LOL haircuts” or “eating at Chili’s, SMH” but the virus really doesn’t give a shit about our moral motives. At-risk folks may get infected and die due to the increased transmission in a protest. They didn’t all agree to that.

Edit: And to be clear, I’m with the BLM protesters. I just gave $100 to a couple of charities in support of them.

4226

Yikes.

It’s possible there are some very specific transmission factors that being outdoors has that tamp down the effect of the spread of COVID-19. It sure seems a little bit that way.

I dunno. I totally understand that individuals don’t want to participate in a protest themselves because of the threat of coronavirus. That makes complete sense to me.

But I’m not gonna be the one telling others not to, either.

4227

I think you underestimate how negative racism is to the world in general. So much conflict, wars, hatred and killing. Imagine a world where we all worked together. I think Covid-19 pales in comparison, but is easier to quanitify.

4228

Today was a day of protests all over the world against racism and police brutality, at personal risk for many, which was completely unpredictable. Trying to guess what a few more days may bring is a fool’s errand. And we will never now what it prevents in the Return of Austerity age, but we know what it brought last time all over the “civilized” world.
Also, I’m the cynic of the site, don’t steal my thing.

4229

No, I really don’t since I’ve been a victim of it as a non-white person. I get it. This is important. Like, I said I gave $200 to support BLM protesting. I want cops demilitarized and I hope all this shit results in some change.

That said, I’m pretty sure some folks are gonna die to COVID-19 because a relative was in these protests. I acknowledge that and accept it.

4230

Nah man, your argument here is bad.

The protests are, without question, increasing the risk of transmission. This idea that the science isn’t understood is a nonsense cop out.

Now, you can say that this is so important, that it’s worth that risk. That’s fine.

But suggesting that it’s not a risk, or won’t increase the number of cases… that silly. It’s definitely going to result in an increase in Covid cases.

4231

Obviously, me neither. Get out and protest, give money, do something if this is important to you.

Just accept that you’re putting people at risk.

4232

I never said anything of the sort to that effect that this wasn’t true.

I’m saying that the idea that it’s an automatic given that everyone present within a certain situation is going to get sick or transmit the virus is probably not the right black and white case here. That doesn’t seem to be happening, that we can tell. Infections are holding steady, but reported case percentage by tests run is still dropping. So clearly the factors in the transmission of the disease that we are aware of are more complex and nuanced than we initially believed. Which also makes sense, because that’s how the science works.

Does it increase the risk? Surely it does. Is a population that knows – more than any other demographic in this country, and perhaps the world – know about the risk as a non-abstract, very real threat? Well, perhaps a good number of the blacks participating do.

4233

No one is claiming that protesting is safe or “ok” from the standpoint of Coronavirus. As @Lantz said, the issue is important enough in this moment to take the risk.

There is a cost to the individual protesting (in terms of risk of exposure). There is also a societal cost in terms of additional cases and the associated burdens. There are also costs to NOT protesting, both at the societal and individual level. Many people have decided the cost of staying silent outweighs the of illness.