Hey, the protestors are just doing what the Trumpists have been asking for…we’re opening back up!
But didn’t you criticize the pool parties or beach scene? (I honestly do know, many of us did myself included pretty harshly).
Both the marches and BLM protest are outside, the virus doesn’t do well in water, so that argues for pool parties being slightly safer. But at first approximation, they events seem quite comparable with the main difference between the density and the prevalence of masks.
How about at least call for a pause in the protest until we can measure the impact? Statistically, there is going to be another police killing of an unarmed black man sometime in the next weeks Odds are the video won’t be as horrific, but no reason that social media and CNN, MSNBC etc. can show reruns of the current one.
This.
Due to an incredible confluence of events – people at home, lots of folks furloughed or laid off, number of occurrences in a very compact time period – it feels like there’s really been no better time in recent years to force a public reassessment of issues regarding race in this country.
It’s an opportunity that may not present such a perfect chance again for a very long time. For my frame of mind, its not that difficult to assess why so many feel its worth the risk.
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And what about those who think that the cost of skipping church outweighs the risk of illness? In both cases you are dealing with the public expression of deeply held convictions. Yet we have no problem telling churchgoers that they should stay home and find some other way to express themselves. I think @Strollen is basically pointing out the glaring inconsistency.
To be fair, marching to put to an end to centuries of the exploitation and destruction of black lives is exactly like a typical Sunday church service.
I mean, yay for him, but who cares? This isn’t fucking debate class. You don’t win anything for picking out logical inconsistencies. I guarantee you the protestors don’t give a shit.
Oh no. Fuck that. I’m off the “Strollen is right” train with this one.
It’s not an inconsistency, it’s democracy. People vote with their feet. There are a million trivial matters that we face every day. This one is a massive societal issue and is being treated as such. That’s the difference. You don’t see millions of christians around the world protesting church closures for a reason.
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Depending on your religious beliefs, the former might be infinitely more consequential.
No, not really. I think I posted a photo of the Ozarks party, but the next day on reflection noted that it’s likely that we’re not going to see the spikes in infection rates that some people were warning about, because we’ve learned some things about various transmission factors, and how persistence and being indoors affects them.
In fact, I specifically posted some thoughts from a couple of papers and from fivethirtyeight specifically mentioning that a “spike” over the summer might be pretty unlikely, given a confluence of a bunch of different factors coming into play.
I’m well aware that many people use their religion as an excuse to avoid having to deal with actual, real life suffering.
If my religious beliefs were held that strongly, wouldn’t I then also adhere to Christ’s teachings in Matthew 6:5? Wouldn’t I also know that while the missed fellowship with other believers was a sacrifice, it was hopefully a short-term one that I was willing to put up with, because ultimately the New Testament teaches that it is through prayer and the Holy Spirit that I ascend into heaven? And that the works of my church – if it is a strong church – take place throughout the week and not even especially on Sundays during services?
Perhaps that’s my protestant upbringing and indoctrination with the Lutheran catechism coming into play. It may be different for other denominations, and certainly other religions. I guess I just saw enough rabbis, imams, reverends, priests and nuns saying “We’re good with not having in-person church services right now. We’ll get back sometime soon.” And then offering ways to have worship services, prayer, etc. outside the confines of church, mosque, synagogue, etc.
I understand it’s hard for a conservative to understand this, but mass movements don’t work that way. Stop now, the inertia goes away and the rest of the investigations stop due to union pressure and nothing fundamentally changes. As always.
What risk is it, though? The Quran is pretty strict about attendance, and Muslims found a way. Is the Bible stricter about attendance and I’m ignorant about it?
Sorry for the edits, I can’t spell.
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Is church a trivial matter? To some it’s equally important as BLM.
Sure, but on reflection it makes me want to cut churchgoers a little more slack.
Religious services are shut down for non-Christians, too.
What would you think if our leaders required protestors to “find a way” to express themselves without physical proximity?
I think many of us would be upset. But that’s what we demand from religious leaders.
If we really want to talk about this in terms of breaking COVID quarantine, I think it’s important to recognize that most of the country is now in/about to enter Phase 2 (or whatever your local area is calling it) of re-opening where most things are open with the exception of in-door dining & mass gatherings. The mass protests are effectively Phase 3 type of gatherings happening when the country is in Phase 2 of reopening.
I see a big difference between calling out these Phase 3-type activities when the country was in fully lockdown mode (i.e. going from 0 -> 3) vs going from Phase 2 -> 3, so while you’re right that these protests do increase risk to the community, it’s happening at a time when the national medical capacity can handle it, unlike if this was were to happen say, 2 months ago.
But are they or you assessing the risk to society at large, I have my doubts? Look at the issues with getting masks to be worn. “Mask’s don’t help me why should I wear one?”. You don’t wear a mask to help yourself you help others.
If I was a young black man, I’d probably be protesting, fuck the statistics, I’m tired of being hassled by cops for simply being black, that sucks. I’ve been at the shit end of society so screw um. I get it. But I’m not happy to see 75-year old guys in New York protesting that’s just fucking dangerous.
I feel genuinely happy that we’ve had our Kombuya moment, but it is truly time for the public health official to start looking out for the health of society as a whole. There are places in the country protests which are ok, the case numbers in both Portland and Honolulu, are so small it doesn’t matter. There are also places where it is not ok. It is inexcusable that public health officials aren’t calling for self-quarantine and testing.
To how many? Your drawing a false equivalency, and in terms of societal impact the two issues aren’t even in the same postal code.
And what exactly do you think that looks like? A Trump cronie telling everyone to go home? Should the police start beating the shit out of everyone and loading them into busses? Get a grip.
Well, I’m pretty sure they’re already doing that.
So this whole argument is even more pointless than it was before.
They really aren’t though. Short of extreme and excessive violence, in violation of most countries ideals, the State does not have control.
