4697

The idea is that with increased economic power, that it would be easier to win fights for change.

I don’t believe solving one problem will solve the other problem. I do believe solving one problem will make it easier to solve the other problem. You can’t look at either problem in a vacuum, and too often we do this.

Personally I believe the only way we can truly win change we all want is through a true coalition of economic leftists and equality seekers, which shouldn’t be as hard as it is- given that what each part of that coalition wants is compatible with the other- but there’s a mistrust there.

We need more folks who can bridge these two worlds- that’s the only way we’re going to get the change needed. I’m desperate for someone who can do it. I want both- and I don’t think we can get one without the other.

4698

Seattle is basically a block party with armed men.

It’s kinda trippy.

4699

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Cops apparently left at 3 pm and said they were on their own.
So they just strapped up and have been patrolling.

Lotta concern about Proud Boys moving in.

4700

Reports of Proud Boys moving in from the West.

Edit: Proud Boys reported as having left.

4701

Phew.

That could have been nasty.

I for one am elated about the shifting that is starting to happen. The things happening in Minneapolis and Washington DC.

This is why you are a great nation. Its only a start though, and the marathon is only just begun.

Cheering y’all on from across the pond.

4702

I was wondering how he was going to handle this. I assumed he wasn’t going to go along with that slogan, but I didn’t know whether he was going to outright say as much. It looks like he has decided to do so to counter Trump’s attempts to paint him as a left-wing extremist.

4703

As usual, the headline is only quoting the most provocative part of Biden’s quote:

(If you’re Fox News, you could actually spin the latter part as being in favor of defunding the police, since he’s not offering an unconditional blank check.)

4704

There’s widespread support for reform, but very little for funding cuts:

image

That’s from a Yahoo News/YouGov Poll posted in the NYT.

4705

That’s no surprise when the standard refrain is: “we want you to fix everything, but change nothing.”

4706

I think it defangs a potential Trump advantage on this issue. The slogan “defund the police” can easily be spun to terrorize the law and order types. In my opinion, Joe Biden’s strength as a candidate is his appeal with the center. I think voters could be scared away from the Democrats if the propaganda out there was that they wanted to get rid of all police and murdering “bad hombres” were going to overrun their lily-white suburbs. Biden can say “I don’t think we should defund them either. However, here’s a list of serious reforms we need”. I don’t think that’s going to alienate a bunch of people on the Left to the point where they stay home or vote Trump.

I have no polls, no data, and I’m no political scientist. The above is just personal opinion. :)

4707

It’s certainly complicated by the fact that I think most folks don’t understand the whole union obstacle and think local government can just dictate better policies and fire officers that don’t follow them. That is, they don’t see why funding cuts are the only lever available.

4708

This is unexpected:

… especially as the mayor is a Republican.

4709

But they’re the Party of Lincoln, surely they should all be in support of such a thing!

4710

I think this is spot on. I think the actual defund the police ideas are right and needed, but I don’t insist that Biden wear the slogan around his neck. Much of the real action on fixing policing has to happen at the local level, and Joe is clearly on board with the national level initiatives like ending military gear transfers to the cops, having national standards, investigating violent police departments.

4711

This is a great insight, though I think there are some things they can do that the union can’t stop, like shit-canning military gear and declining future transfers from the Feds, banning the use of some techniques and weapons, etc. In the end, though, they can’t root out bad cops without defeating or bypassing the unions through funding cuts.

4712

A really cool thread – I learned a lot.

4713

NAACP President Derrick Johnson, in an interview, also declined to endorse calls to defund the police.

“I support the energy behind it. I don’t know what that substantively means. As I’m talking to people about the concept, I’ve gotten three different explanations,” said Johnson, who has criticized Trump. “We know there has to be a change in the culture of policing in this country.”

4714

Let me tell you what the reality is… a poor white man in this country is still likely to get served, no I mean literally get service. That is not the case for a black man in several scenarios, doesn’t matter how much money he has, what he wears or how educated he is… and that happens more often than most people know or will admit.

So every time someone says, let’s help the poor and that will lead to something something about racism, I just believe that person doesn’t have a clue about stuff like this:

And of course little if any knowledge about downward mobility trends.

4715

I guess he must be avoiding the topic a bit to defang political attacks? I have a hard time believing he doesn’t actually know the substance behind the topic already.

4716

I think it’s sincerely the branding. It’s a non-starter for a lot of people because “defund” in a political sense means to completely cripple an agency. Think about GOP calls to defund Planned Parenthood. Do they mean reform or do they mean kill?