5405

Yep the point she’s making is spot on.

5406

To be clear, I thought that I made it pretty clear that I fully accept the notion that you need to listen to and understand the perspective of everyone involved, especially including minority views, because those views might take some additional effort to consider (since they’re less reflected in the overall dominant societal framework).

But at the same time, it doesn’t diminish the majority viewpoint either. You can’t swing from only considering one viewpoint, to only considering the other. And to be clear, I don’t think most folks do that. But sometimes, there seems to be an inclination to say, “You just need to listen to this person, but they don’t need to listen to you. You’re just being self centered if you talk about your opinion.” That’s silly. It’s just a repeat of the racists not valuing the opinion of the minorities.

If I’m talking to another white person, and they present their opinion, if it differs from mine then I’ll discuss it with them, and part of that discussion will likely be me presenting my own opinion as contrast to try and understand how we can come together. The same process should take place with a member of a minority group…because why wouldn’t it?

The problem comes about if one person ignores or discounts the perspective of the other… but listening to the other person, and then pointing out possible errors (while also being open to having your own errors illuminated) is how productive conversation takes place. It can’t be uni-directional, in either direction.

5407

Oh, I absolutely understand the point she is making: double standards. But her approach still reads like a humblebrag about what a wild child she was.

5408

She describes a lot of common crimes. You’ve never e.g. drank alcohol when underage? Tried illegal drugs? Shoplifted anything? Damaged any property that wasn’t yours?

I’m sure there are some people who can say they have never done anything illegal at all, but I’m also sure that such people are probably a minority in society.

Yes, absolutely. As a teenager I certainly:

  • got caught by cops for underage drinking and was driven home with no harm no foul
  • got stopped by cops for DUI and driven home with a warning
  • damaged public and private property without getting caught
  • shoplifted at least a book that I recall, maybe more
5409

Nope, but I’m fully aware of how common the drinking and drugs stuff is and that’s not what I’m talking about. I’ve certainly never stolen thousands of dollars of stuff and then run from the cops, nor assaulted someone with a wine bottle, and surely to god those aren’t common.

5410

You can’t really say look at the awful shit I’ve done and gotten away with because I’m white if you haven’t done any awful shit, can you?

5411

A friend posted her thread on facebook and I responded with my own experiences. I am a white male in my 30’s, kinda scruffy looking. I get pulled over, on average, 5 times per year. I sometimes get a ticket. I never get shot.

EDIT: wasn’t replying directly to @vinraith , just discourse being discourse

5412

Well, shit, I left out several stops for speeding, etc.

5413

I am never speeding, usually the opposite, I have very poor eyesight at night, and am usually at or just below the speed limit (I live on deserted, twisty roads)

5414

Yup, no argument there.

Hey, there’s something I’ve actually done. :)

I feel like I’ve inadvertently pulled the whole thread off of the (very important) topic so let’s just move on, right?

5415
5416

You bragging monster you! 😜

5417

And at no time was I under threat of being shot, to bring this thing back around. Though there was one very scary cop in rural KY.

5418



5419

News O’Clock is just dizzying today.

5420

Have folks watched the bodycam footage of them doing the “follow the finger” routine with Rayshard Brooks?

Because it’s SUPER bullshit. Like, the cop is taking FOREVER. He’s so obviously just trying to get him to fuck up. It’s not a fair test… Rayshard is passing the test just fine, and the cop is just drawing it on and on and on. With long periods of time where he is just holding his hand still, and staring at Brooks.

Like, he’s waiting for Brooks to look away from his finger at him, because that’s what I’d sure as hell do after just standing there for a minute with the finger not moving.

But damned if Brooks has played this fucking game before, and he doesn’t fall for it. The cop tries to catch him, for minutes… and Brooks doesn’t fall for it.

The cops were just trying to get him for something. I think it ended up being that he was just barely over the legal limit. And it’s dumb that he was driving a car at all. But man, the cop was being a total dickhead.

5421

That’s sort of my default assumption for cops. I can’t imagine cop is going to prosper in that career if they go back to the station at the end of a long shift and report that everyone was law abiding and no arrests or citations were needed today.

If you pay people to arrest criminals, then criminals will be found. One way or another. If you pay people to use force to subdue “dangerous criminal elements” of society, then such dangerous criminals will be found. One way or another.

I’m a middle aged white dude from flyover country with no felony record and I’ve had the “don’t trust the cops, they are not your friend” talk with my children.

5422
5423

5424

I think there’s definitely truth to all that. Cops should not be incentivized to arrest people. Same thing for other tickets and citations. We’ve already seen how such behavior has been used to fund local governments in places like Ferguson.

The flip side of that though is that there are good cops, who don’t treat people like dickheads, and as a result they are better able to do their jobs. Since people don’t hate them, they actually help them do their jobs… which means that they’ll have an easier time catching actual criminals.

But I think it’s definitely the case that cops need to not be incentivized to maximize the number of criminals they bring in or ticket.