‘Realize’ is not a synonym for ‘speculate’ or ‘guess’.
KevinC
6580
So I just want to be clear: I’m 100% with you on the sentiment. Part of me wants to see the next video of these thugs rolling up to abduct someone get confronted by a militia of armed protestors. My hatred for these people and what they’re doing runs deep.
But as soon as one of these thugs gets shot or killed they’re not coming back with minivans, they’ll be back like this:
So no, they’re not going to confront armed black protestors as they are. But I worry that they’ll escalate and then things will get really bad.
I don’t know. I don’t have the answers or a crystal ball, just a whole lot of anger and worry about what happens when a spark hits this powder keg.
Timex
6582
I’m with you… I honestly don’t know how it would play out.
Part of me says that if the protesters were armed, the police would be reluctant to engage in force, which would potentially cause things to die down a bit.
But part of me does realize that if the cops did push, then it could result in them getting shot, and then you’d have a Reichstagg fire.
Sharpe
6583
I feel like the concept of probability/stochastic analysis is helpful here: even if 99% of the cops were chastened by armed protesters, it only takes a tiny number of cops provoking an armed response for the whole thing to explode into mass violence. Basically, for your idea to work Timex, 100% of the cops would have to moderate their behavior and 100% of the armed protesters would have to restrain themselves. That IMO, is just not going to happen given how high emotions are.
So I think the real world impact of this theoretical idea would be bad.
For now at least, I still see a non-violent path forwards towards turning things around in this country, and that’s where we should focus our efforts.
Timex
6584
Well, like I said… the cops didn’t start shooting at white folks who had a bunch of gun in places like Michigan, or those federal lands in Oregon.
And they haven’t started shooting at the black folks carrying AR’s either. So all racism aside, it seems like seeing a bunch of armed folks all together is imposing some kind of check on the cops dealing with them.
Rward
6585
I really, really hope this is the outcome.
I don’t know what to say. That’s not how it happened with my friend. They said they were cops, and he is deaf in one ear so didn’t hear that. They grabbed him and he fought them, thinking they were weirdos. Plain clothes and all that. They restrained him at that time and threw him into their car. No rights were read, no badges shown.
This was in '96. He was white and it was in Santa Rosa, a medium sized CA town just north of SF.
I just wonder if cell phone cameras are bringing to light that which has been around for a long time. Perhaps Trump admin has heightened it slightly. Heck, didn’t the cops shoot a bunch of kids at a University in the 1960s with live rounds?
KevinC
6587
I think it’s clear that Trump has heightened it and more than slightly, but that doesn’t mean that cell phones aren’t raising awareness just like they have with police brutality issues in general.
Delho
6589
The civilians out on the streets that are armed, are making things worse. The difference between most armed protests of note throughout history and now, is there is not even a atom of discipline being shown by the armed civilians of this civil unrest. Point a gun at a driver… get shot, and deservedly so. If you don’t like the way a Jeep is making a turn at a traffic light, shoot and miss and hit two bystanders. The historic armed protests were by people that knew that if they so much as touched their gun with intent to use it, they and everyone standing with them could legitimately be shot dead the next moment. If you need a refresher, watch the black panthers at the California capitol building.
Timex
6591
You talking about that guy who was caretaker for his qualified girlfriend, who got about by that dude? Footage from that event looked like he wasn’t pointing his rifle at the driver.
Delho
6592
I was not there. All I can say is that from what I have seen, he had the gun pointed through the window of the car before he was shot.
Guns and people acting in erratic ways are a recipe for tragedy.
ShivaX
6593
They didn’t fuck with NFAC when they were out and about, but once they left they were fine with messing with people again.
ShivaX
6594
Source?
Because even the dude’s lawyers last I knew were foggy on what exactly happened. To actually SEE him pointing a rifle would be something that wasn’t public record even a day ago to my knowledge.
As we’re learning more and more, there are a substantial number of alpha-aggressive police officers who use the badge to provoke black Americans into lashing out so that they can be violently apprehended on whatever bullshit grounds like Resisting Arrest.
With these federal troops, Trump and Barr are just using the same tactic writ large in the hopes of provoking a similar violent response. I guess they think it will help them politically.
It’s what happens when cruel, dumb citizens elect a racist bully president.
The Danish chief for “Beredskab” (basically the Riot Police/guys who handle demonstrations) in Copenhagen comments on the US PD/Fed tactics (Danish only, unfortunately).
Short version:
- If you need to employ riot techniques, you’ve already lost. Riot techniques are (should be) the final resort.
- Shields are (have become) a big no-no in their doctrines. Comments that shields are an invitation to people to throw stuff. Generally points out that creating fronts between protesters and police is an incredibly bad idea that invites confrontation.
- They try to establish a dialogue with the protesters long before the protest happens and keep it up during the protest; try and figure out what the protesters want, and how to accommodate them as much as possible. He mentions the quite contentious Cop15 meeting in 2009. The protesters wanted to show civil disobedience and get some good pictures, so the police literally agreed with the protesters that they could “attack” and “break” one of their cordons. The protesters got some cool pictures, the police remained in control of the situation, and no one got seriously hurt.
- Notes that there are always a few who are there to cause trouble and confrontation with the police, but that the trick is to isolate them from the vast majority who are there to protest peacefully and deal with them, without escalating the situation.
Most of which kind of goes without saying (the idea of an “arranged confrontation” is new to me - but makes sense if you think about their job being to keep the situation under control and avoid anyone getting hurt). Win-Win.
We used to send police officers to Iraq to train up the Police force there after Saddam - perhaps it’s time to send some police trainers to the US after the election - the NYPD and others seem to need it.
CraigM
6597
Look they already get 16 hours of deescalation training, and we don’t have any more room to trim more of the 800 hours of weapons training.
There really isn’t one. This happened in my city and I’ve been following it pretty closely. The only moderately hard evidence is one grainy photo, where if you enhance one small part of the photo, you can see the guy who was shot (Garett). Most of his body is blocked by other protesters, and it’s not clear if his gun was either at a sort of low-rest or pointed at the driver of the car.
Assuming good faith on both of their parts, the tragedy shows the logical end point of Texas guns laws. Garett had good reason to fear for his life, since the car went through a red light and into the crowd of protesters, and among others Garett’s wheel-chair bound wife was in the car’s path. The guy in the car had reason to fear for his life since there were tons of people approaching his car, one of whom had a gun. So according to Texas law they’re both perfectly within their rights to murder each other. I guess the moral of the story is that the next time a car pulls into a protest, just unload your full clip into the car without any hesitation. #2020
Menzo
6599
Yup, but these two are freedom fighters. I can’t quite put my finger on the difference between the people you’re talking about and the couple in this photo…can someone help me out?
