Yeah, a little too low.
The last numbers I saw had Freespace 2 selling about 85,000 units in the US. It probably topped out at around 200,000 units worldwide.
Things got really ugly after 1999 when FS2 was released. Starlancer, Allegiance, X:BTF, IWar 2, each reported less than 30,000 units in the US. I don’t have numbers for Star Trek: Bridge Commander or Battlecruiser Millenium, but I’d be surprised if either of them broke 50,000 units worldwide.
–milo
I don’t have numbers for Star Trek: Bridge Commander or Battlecruiser Millenium, but I’d be surprised if either of them broke 50,000 units worldwide.
Ouch. I always knew Battlecruiser was a niche title, but I would have thought the Star Trek license would have done better numbers than that. However, come to think of it, I don’t imagine the license helped sales much for stuff like New Worlds or Armada.
-Tom
I figured the numbers were low when Totally Games announced there would be no sequel to Bridge Commander and then canned a number of people. Part of the problem may be that the Star Trek license is kind of tainted. There have been so many bad titles that when the rare good one comes along, the reviews all start out by saying, “Hey, this Star Trek game doesn’t suck!”
Whoa. As I said, I don’t have access to any numbers on ST:BC or BCM. I’m just extrapolating from some sparse anecdotal evidence online. Either or both of them could have done better than my Scientific Wild-Ass Guess.
“Part of the problem may be that the Star Trek license is kind of tainted.”
Could be. I’m not sure how strong the ST:TNG license really is these days. It’s been off the air so long that I can’t really remember what the individual episodes were about anymore. It might have been better to time the release of the game for just after Nemesis comes out in theaters, rather than going for the Christmas rush…
–milo
“I’m not sure how strong the ST:TNG license really is these days. It’s been off the air so long”
It’s on TV at least once a day on TNN. (They bought the rights to yank it off of syndication, in order to be the exclusive source for the show.) In their ads for the show, they are constantly bragging about how great their ST:TNG ratings are. So, ya might be wrong.
The Star Trek license is tainted. Hell, the movies are tainted. Saw MIB2 today, and there was a trailer for Nemesis, and as soon as people figured out it was a Star Trek movie (when the Enterprise-E sailed onto screen), I heard the grumbles.
I cut my teeth on X-Wing… my favorite PC game of all time is the TIE Fighter’s Collector’s CD. I love space sims, and simply put, this genre is as dead as can be right now.
I-War2 was mind-numbingly frustrating and boring. It had potential, the grpahics were gorgeous, but there was a limit to my patience. I’d play 15 minutes on a mission only to get killed in the final, frustrating 16th minute, meaning I’d have to restart the whole damn thing and try and try again. I don’t have that kind of time anymore, and that is far from my idea of fun.
Freespace/Freespace 2 were okay, but they simply didn’t light anyone’s fire.
I think the problem is that for 90-percent of these games, the plots are all the same. Take Alien “X”, put in in conflict with Federation/Confederation/Imperial Human empire, and then throw mysterious Alien “Y” in halfway through. It’s the same ol’ same ol’, and the gameplay is the same ol’ same ol’, and the missions are same ol’ same ol. The only thing that really improves are graphics, but those can’t carry a genre alone.
I think the only way to really relight this genre is for LucasArts to wait a while and then release a jaw-droppingly gorgous X-Wing game, and have someone actually come up with space combat multiplayer that is actually fun and addictive and popular (which is the hardest part). I’m talking cinematic-quality graphics that blow past what anyone has ever seen, or imagined.
The only problem is that the Star Wars prequels are really screwing things up. I take a look at the fighter designs there and I don’t want anything to do with them. The Naboo fighter looks incredibly lame, especially compared against the sleek menace of an A-Wing or the brute looks of a B-Wing. But LucasArts is so tied into making Episode I, II, III products, the original trilogy is quickly becoming ancient history.
It’s the same ol’ same ol’, and the gameplay is the same ol’ same ol’, and the missions are same ol’ same ol. The only thing that really improves are graphics, but those can’t carry a genre alone.
But then you suggest that to re-light this genre we need a game with jaw-droppingly good graphics? And multiplayer? Wouldn’t it make more sense to address some of the other issues you raised instead? Like more interesting missions, or more tactical gameplay that relies more on movement and weapon selection than on energy and shield management?
Granted, I’m not sure that it can be done. There is precious little source material to go on if you want to design a compelling space battle. For example, each Star Wars film has had less of an emphasis on space combat than the one before (OK, ESB and RoTJ were a tie). And even if someone did come up with something innovative and exciting, it’s not clear that the audience is still there.
–milo
You know what would revitalise the genre and sell big time? A MMOG along the lines of Elite or Privateer using the Star Wars license. You could be a trader, a smuggler, bounty hunter, mercenary, pirate, or even be a pilot in the Imperial Navy chasing down the smugglers and pirates. If you could find them, you could even join with the Alliance and fly strike missions against Imperial outposts. In a persistant world, and if it was done right, that game would rule.
Who wouldn’t want to pilot a YT-1300 Transport smuggling spice from Kessel past an Imperial blocade to sell to Jabba on Tatooine?
I’m not that bothered that Lucas Arts isn’t doing more original trilogy space sims. How many times can you play through the movies and have it still be interesting? Christ, after X-Wing and Tie Fighter you’ve seen both sides. Throw in X-Wing vs Tie Fighter and Alliance and you’ve played through with/against your friends and from yet another perspective. I wish to hell they would have spread to some of the expanded universe stuff (back when I cared we just called them novels and comics). They could have built campaigns based on Timothy Zahns’ books, but no… I have to keep knocking out Death Stars like I’m playing intergalactic whack-a-mole.
I don’t think the genre’s dead, though. There are a few multi=platform hybrid game, on foot and in ship, like Dirk Diggler: Bounty Hunter (or whatever it’s called) from Warthog, and Maelstrom. Both those are Xbox/PC games, maybe even PS2.
I hope the genre gets heathier. I bought Starlancer when it first came out, full price, and liked it, so I guess that makes me a diehard fan. Didn’t do anything new or different, but it played well and had great production values. I don’t think they ever released a patch for the game, which is either impressive, or sad. I’m still playing Tachyon: The Fringe (Bruce Campbell’s game).
“Saw MIB2 today, and there was a trailer for Nemesis, and […] I heard the grumbles.”
Well, if you were sitting near me in a theater where they showed a preview for MIB2, you would have heard me grumbling. What a crappy lookin’ movie. I can’t stomach the ads, let alone the thought of going to the theater and seein’ that shit. The cinematic equivalent of Taco Bell food.
As far as what would spice up space warfare sims, I think this would go a long way:
A “Red Faction” I-MOD like system fully implemented on the spaceships, so you can punch great big holes in the opposing starships, blow off their engines and watch the engines tumbling off into space (perhaps even toward your own ship, so you have to duck 'em), blow out the hell of the cockpits and see people flying off into space, etc., etc.
MORE DETAIL, MORE SENSE OF WONDER, MORE TERROR! I want to see giant scars on the outside of ships exactly where I’ve cut holes in them with lasers. I want to be able to blow off big pieces of enemy ships, and vice-versa. I want to be able to keep fighting after I’ve had a wing shot off, struggling to survive.
I hate that all these space sims thus far only seem to show generic damage on the ships I’m shooting at, until they just blow up in a boring fashion. In order to get a real feel of chaotic, dangerous combat, I want to have to dodge the crippled wrecks of opponents, to see exciting representations of the damage I’m doing to my opponents.
Another feature that would help in this regard: a replay system, as seen in all of those console racing games. I want to be able to watch the combat I just went through with exciting exterior camera angles. Most space sims allow you to see your ship from the outside, but it’s impossible to fight or pilot from such angles. Give me a good replay option afterwards, with cinematic camera angles and frequent cutting between appropriate angles to get me excited about what I just accomplished (or how spectacularly I just failed). If console racing games can do this well, how 'bout space combat games?
>The last numbers I saw had Freespace 2 selling about 85,000 units in the US. It probably topped out at around 200,000 units worldwide.
Yeah, that’s consistent with the numbers I’ve seen domestically. It only sold about half that before coming down in price though. Drag.
>War2 was mind-numbingly frustrating and boring. It had potential, the grpahics were gorgeous, but there was a limit to my patience.
I really liked IWar 2 - I wouldn’t complain at all if there was another game or two of its quality coming down the pipe in the genre.
>Freespace/Freespace 2 were okay, but they simply didn’t light anyone’s fire.
Freespace 2 certainly lit mine. The first game was solid, but the second game is, in my opinion 'natch, the best game the genre’s ever produced. One of the most intelligent games ever, with great plot, music, graphics, interface and incredible gameplay. There’s always room for improving the AI in these games, but otherwise I think it was just about perfect.
Bridge Commander at least tried to do something different, but I’m not surprised it didn’t sell well. It sold decently in its first month, but never really had much buzz. No space sim really has, since Xwing vs. Tie Fighter. That was the last commercially “big” space sim.
Stefan
You didn’t play Bridge Commander, I guess. :D
I’m not just saying a vast improvement in graphics… actually talked to Larry Holland about this once. What we need is also a revolution in gameplay, as well.
For one, I think the Holy Grail would be actually re-enacting something like the Battle of Endor. X-Wing Alliance tries, but it pulls a lot of magic tricks to make you think the battle is larger than it actually is. But could you imagine something where there aren’t just 10-12 fighters flying around, but hundreds? (We’re talking CPU power a few years down the line, though.)
Plus, you can do more things with more fighters in the sky; maybe you’re a squadron commander and you have to lead your squadron into the area of the fight where all of you can make a decisive difference, etc, etc. Then you can weave in an out of gigantic capital ships, making them accidentally trade fire with each other.
Yeah, it’s rather fanciful and a lot of wishful thinking, but it’s that kind of thing that would simply be an awesome experience.
"You didn’t play Bridge Commander, I guess. "
You caught me. It doesn’t seem to load on my Diamond Stealth Lite 3D card.
I apologize for the wrong number above. I guess I forgot a zero. I did dig up this link…
http://www.volitionwatch.com/articles/ArticleDisp.php?ID=11
…which notes the number in PC Gamer at around 26,000 in April of 2000 which was about six months after release. By that time, the original game had been marked down and the GOTY Edition was out. I don’t think Interplay did a lot of full price sales on the game. I was one of them though…as Stefan has noted, it’s just about perfect as a genre game.
–Dave
I thought that I-War 2 did a lot of really interesting things, even if it did many of them somewhat clumsily. The combat, in particular, was more entertaining than the typical space sim turning battle.
I also remain impressed with Freelancer, which I had the opportunity to sit down and play for about an hour at E3 this year. If there really is an issue with “joystick games,” then it will be interesting to see how this game does, since it’s made for mouse and keyboard.
Well Lucas and Verant are planning to release an expansion down the road to Star Wars Galaxies that will let you fly ships. If the interface uses a joystick, instead of the RPGmouse interface that Earth and Beyond will use, it could help bring some interest back. The game itself should be huge by that point, and they are going to allow you to be bounty hunters, traders, fighters, etc. with these ships, so that might help. I, for one, would love that kind of environment. I really thought XW:A would foster an online community, with the whole gunnery thing and multiplayer fights, but it didn’t work too well.
Please share!
The descriptions I have read of Freelancer’s control system make it sound like a choose-your-own-rail shooter (although I have not played it myself). Did you find the game impressive because of the control system or in spite of it?
–milo
I’m pretty curious about Starshatter myself. I’ll download that demo when it comes out, milo. Freelancer is also another game I’d like to hear more about.
The game I’d really like to see, but never will, would be a Terminus 2. Vicarious Visions had some genuinely great ideas in Terminus but it didn’t seem to quite play out as well as it could have. There was dynamic trading and mission generation and NPCs that could develop individual ‘relationships’ of alliance or hostility as they encountered each other. They could even place bounties on each other or on you. The starship design was equally excellent with many tradeoffs to consider when putting your craft together - bigger wasn’t always better. That’s one thing that has put me off to many space sims in the past - designing a ship generally meant saving up to buy Mk VI as soon as possible - it’s just like spending experience points to raise a level in a CRPG. More subtle options dealing with stealth considerations, weight and inertia, energy consumption, storage and generation, cargo capacity vs. onboard gear and weapons as part of a zero sum game makes for much more possible customization than simply saving up to buy a bunch of big guns and better torpedoes.
Unfortunately Terminus didn’t offer a very good window into the relationships between NPC ships nor any way to communicate (aside from ‘drop your cargo’) or adjust your relationships with them (even Privateer allowed you to hail ships in passing just to chat). You could affect your standing with the three major factions or individual station chiefs but that was about it. The lack of overall production values didn’t help either and the laggy and unstable multiplayer universe finally did her in.
If X:BtF 2 manages to keep the scope and complexity of the economic engine while making the actual space sim more, I dunno, exciting then it could really be worth a look. There’s also supposedly a new Elite coming out for the PC but that was a rumor I heard ages ago.