Before merry answers, let me clarify that you’re talking about two different games. You’re halfway through the PC version. Merry and I played the console version of the game, which, as has been discussed to death, wasn’t even as good as KOTOR, because you couldn’t even cycle through your party and give orders and queue up orders (like you could in KOTOR). You could only give one order at a time, and it was a pain in the ass to do anything remotely complex with the party, given the game’s interface.
It’s obvious that this doesn’t apply to the PC version, which had a different interface. So just be aware that you’re talking about two different games. Plus merryprankster even specified that he’s looking forward to the changes in the console version.
Going back to merry’s post though, I’d actually be really happy if Dragon Age had Fable II’s combat system. One button for melee, one for ranged, and one for magic? Yes please! I LOVED that system. It sounded horrible in theory, but it was so much fun while I was playing, I’m a total convert to that system. Plus you have to admit merry that it was a TON more fun than Dragon Age’s combat system. (console version).
Sarkus
1762
I wanted to add that the PC version doesn’t allow you to queue up orders either. You can pause at any point and tell your companions what to do, but only one action at a time (well other then attack and what special ability to use). So it wasn’t like KOTOR as much as it was like Baldur’s Gate. The PC version is superior in that respect, but it’s not like they used the KOTOR system on that platform either.
My replay has stalled in the Fade section. Talk about a momentum killing area. I didn’t find it that bad on my previous playthrough, but I’m having a tough time getting excited about it this time through.
Quitch
1763
The inability to queue means you spend all your time not really planning, but just ensuring that everyone is using some ability or other. It’s like you have multiple WoW toons. Sometimes the battles could be interesting, but damn you had to go through a lot of them, and so many were flicking through everyone and ensuring that some ability or other had been clicked.
Sarkus
1764
At higher difficulty levels, sure. But I played through on the PC verison on normal and only bothered micromanaging my companions in specific fights, mainly boss battles or tactically difficult situations. The tactics scripting allowed me to play out most battles just by controlling my created character. In my current playthrough as a mage, I’d say that’s even more viable since the mage can really control the situation.
I haven’t played the console versions, but from what I read it sounded like the difficulty levels were toned down to offset the control limitations.
liminal
1765
I’m still in the origin section of my first game, but the tooltips have already mentioned that only one action per character can be queued. I assume this was done to encourage usage of the tactics screen, which seems pretty versatile at first glance. Assuming I’m right about the tactics system, using it would really cut down on the ability babysitting you’re talking about, Quitch.
Edit: Sarkus says the same thing, but faster
Quitch
1766
Yeah but the tactics system is too limiting, they shouldn’t have linked it to my character’s level.
In the basic game it was but there was a tactics mod that opened up all 25 slots. Once I got this and learned how to use tactics properly it worked even on nightmare difficulty for all but the most difficult fights. However a mixture of this and queuing would be ideal.
Quitch
1768
Ah, I’ll have to try that mod. I think planning out tactics and seeing how they go in the fight would be far more interesting than the pause fest I otherwise experience.
Incidentally, while queueing is a great idea, its implementation in KOTOR and KOTOR2 was ass and everyone who praises it needs to go back and play those games. The way that certain actions wouldn’t trigger the queue UI, while others would be overriden by the AI without a second action, and the basic attack action could sometimes be invisible at the front of the queue.
Pretty much what Rock8 said. The interface is so unweildy that it is virtually impossible to use any complex manuvers. Basically it boils down to setting up some good tactics trees and pressing A a lot. It’s just dull.
As for DA2 combat being like Fable 2, yeah it would be an improvement. I’m kinda hoping they push it a bit further though. Fable is a fine basic system, but it ends up pretty button mashy. I’d like something that uses more precision. Like a toned down Demon’s Souls or something.
Just had a chance to jump in and read the responses, so let me quickly hit a few points before I have to run (I hate not having time for the forums right now!).
I did not know you guys were talking about the console version initially. Strangely enough, I had the exact same complaints, because I played nearly 14 hours on the 360 (And now am about that far on the PC) before I gave up and moved on waiting to build my new PC. The game on PC plays like a fairly dumbed down action rpg as you alluded to, because you truly cannot properly control your teammates. You cannot target enemies easily, you cannot queue ala KOTOR (which was such an obvious and welcome addition to those games), and with no easy pause, it is clunky and unwieldy to switch teammates and use powers. Add to that limited tactics slots and a system inferior to Final Fantasy XII (Which is where I am guessing they got their inspriation) and you get a system that frankly sucks.
Now, I am not sure I want a Fable 2 combat system in Dragon Age 2 (which I am not reading about yet because I don’t want to get any DA1 spoilers). I love Fable 2 a lot, and loved the combat system, but I really want Dragon Age 2 to be a “hardcore” rpg, as DA1 was supposed to be. Maybe that’s not really going to work on a console, and like I said, I am in the dark on DA2 info so I don’t know if they have said anything about tactics or companions or anything, so maybe it would make the most sense to have an action-active RPG system. To be completely honest though, I don’t know how I would suggest they go the more hardcore route with the 360 controller. It seems a difficult task.
Now, to the PC version-it is roughly 173x better than the 360 version in just about every conceivable way, and while I would like the option for queuable commands, I think the reason they left them out was to encourage use of the tactics system, which while still clunky, is robust enough to work with some tweaking when you use the mod to unlock all 25 slots.
I want to write more about this and will check back later, but I am off on baby duty now!
CalvinGT: To clarify, it sounds like they’re leaving the combat alone (as far as we know) for the PC version of DA2. It’s the console version that is getting more action-oriented combat, so that’s the version that me and merry were speculating about.
On Fable 2: I didn’t think Fable 2 was very button mashy at all. It could be button-mashy if you chose to go that route, but let’s take each button separately for a second shall we? The X button, used for melee, could be mashed, but in order to pull of combo moves you needed to time it right. For the Y button, which is what I used the most, since I was a ranged combat fan in that game, you press it when you carefully line up your shots. For the B button (magic), you had to basically hold it down to cast the spell you had selected, most of the time, depending on the spell. So it wasn’t really button-mashy at all. Not the way I played it, at least.
I think the systems where good, as you mentioned, in Fable 2. I just think that given the game was so easy you rarely needed to apply much to succeed. If the enemies where more of a threat it would force you to consider the combat more. I know there was blocking and dodging, but when you can just smack the hell out of something why bother.
So yes, the basics of Fables combat are interesting, but the game isn’t tuned right to leverage that well.
Agreed completely about Fable 2. If they had a hard option, I would go back and replay it in an instant.
Thanks for the clarification, that is really good to hear. It might actually encourage me to try the game on both platforms. I would enjoy it on 360 with a more action oriented PC combat approach if the tactics/gambits and ability to select and target with party members was competent and easy to use rather than just awful and unwieldy!
So…I bought this game when it came out. I rolled up a Dwarf Commoner Rogue, played through a good portion of the game, then set it down and never picked it back up. The other day I started playing again, finished up the ashes thing, then went on to the Landsmeet.
For practically the whole game I’ve been playing with Alistair, Sten, and Morrigan. I’ve made it through all this time just using potions and not having a heal spell on Morrigan, but now the Denerim encounters are kind of kicking my ass. I’m sure part of it is because I’m rusty with the controls, but man! I broke down and gave Morrigan a heal spell the last time she levelled, but it’s still rough going. The bad guys seem a whole lot tougher for some reason. Is it just me?
Last night I got my ass kicked so bad by one fight that I started to wonder if I haven’t borked my dudes up…maybe I did the stats wrong…maybe I should have done different skills. I have been pumping strength up on Sten and Alistair, perhaps I neglected Dex and Con a little too much (probably both in the low 20s for each)? Tough to say. Like I said, I remember kicking all sorts of ass up to this point, maybe I’m just rusty.
I’ve been thinking about starting the game anew, since I’m a bit bored with this party anyway, but I’d also like to see the end of the game.
The Denerim encounters kicked my ass too. I can’t believe you made it that far into the game without a healer, personally. What’s Wynne doing?
Dex is important for your fighters, especially 2-handers like Sten since the slow swing means misses are costly. If you want to tweak your companions’ stats a bit and don’t want to re-start, you could always use the Respecialization mod.
I don’t really care for Wynne but do like Morrigan, so that’s basically that.
I’ve been using her for crowd control, and it was working really well. There have just been so many bad guys in the Denerim fights so far that I end up getting overwhelmed. (Which is what makes me think I’m rusty.) That the fights have been 60% archers and 20% rogues hasn’t really helped my cause. It also seems like the enemies are hitting a lot harder at this point, while my dudes don’t seem to be packing a lot of punch. (Which makes me feel like I’ve borked up the stats somehow.) I’ll try to tough it out for a few more days and see what I can do. Maybe I can do a bunch of sidequests and bump up the stats enough on level-ups. Thanks for the tips.
Just what everyone was crying out for, more Deep Roads!
I can’t stop laughing. If only they could work the Fade into the Deep Roads, they would have the ultimate DLC.
I liked the Deep Roads. And the Fade too. Finally Bioware is making some decent DLC for Dragon Age!
I didn’t mind the Deep Roads, though the change in scenery was nice once I finished them and moved on to another area. It looks like Bioware is finally doing those adventure modules that they talked about before DA:O was released, but that have MIA for a long time. I really enjoyed Leliana’s Song. It sounds like this one will deal with the aftermath of discoveries made in the main game and the interest those stirred up, which could be interesting if done well.
