3499

Something I’ve never understood about Utah Republicans is their support of Trump. I understood (even if I obviously didn’t agree with) their “anyone but Hillary” position. But actual support of Trump and his policies? He’s anti-ethical to everything about this culture and their beliefs.

It’s good to see there just might be a line they’re not willing to cross.

3500

Maybe their culture and beliefs have just been bullshit all along? It’s obvious for a good swath of “Christianity” that this is the case.

No abortions - GOOD!
Everything else that in any way is good and humane in the country - BAD!

3501

In my experience LDS folks were never the southern fried burnt to a crisp brand of Christianity although my understanding is the current Church leadership has allowed itself to drift towards Trumpism (particularly its renewed bigotry towards gay people) many LDS folks never been particularly comfortable with it. We can hope more and more of them find their conscience. Mormon’s/LDS in my experience are far more likely to actually want to live a good Christian life than born again folks, obviously you cannot be a Christian and support Donald trump so this “vote Republican and hold your nose” has now become a very uncomfortable position for those who actually think about their faith.

3502

Let’s be clear that most anti-abortion Christians support making abortions illegal, but do not in general support measures–like poverty alleviation, women’s rights legislation, comprehensive sex education, access to contraceptives, etc–that correlate with reduction in the number of abortions that occur. As long as the law condemns it and they can use it as a political wedge, they’re good. They don’t actually care about mitigating abortion.

3503

Of course, and I wholeheartedly agree with this, but it’s the issue that so many based their vote on, however misguided it is.

3504

I hope you’re right. It’s still so strange to see supposedly moralistic and conscientious folks voting for him and supporting his policies in the first place.

3505

I agree with Rod’s take. For instance, the anti-immigration and overt racism of a lot of Trumpists doesn’t sell well here, despite it being a deeply red state.

Utah is 62% Mormon, and the majority of Mormons (men, at least, it’s not as prevalent with women) spend two years doing missionary work. This often meanss being sent to countries in Latin America, Africa, etc. The whole “Infesting the country with immigrants” doesn’t play, since their explicit goal is to go to those countries and bring them into the fold.

Now, there’s a deep distrust of government and governmental authority, which breeds a strong guns rights stance. Like other Christian religions, they’re opposed to abortion but I’ve never felt the same zealotry for the issue as I see from the South. They’re vehemently opposed to gay marriage.

But in terms of “family values”, I do think that the bulk of them truly believe that. Many of them I know certainly live that way. That’s where a lot of the hatred for Bill Clinton comes from in these parts, he was an immoral man.

But that’s where I haven’t been able to follow them with Trump. I get that many of them couldn’t bring themselves to vote for HIllary after decades of brainwashing (lets just call it what it is). But sticking up for Trump, as opposed to being the “lesser of two evils”? I’ve never understood that. Perhaps partisanship is just running that deep.

In any case, I’m not surprised to see this a line a lot of Republicans in Utah can’t cross. Again, the racism doesn’t play nearly as well here and taking away children from their families strikes at the very core of the culture here. I have no love at all for the LDS church, but I’m just surprised and saddened that it had to go this far for people to really balk at what is going on.

3506

I would think what Trump is doing to families and children strikes at the heart of what most Mormons believe. Mormons believe in family.

3507

Absolutely. And not in a “family values” way, either. I grew up in a LDS household, they’re not just paying lip service to family.

3508

I have Mormon neighbors, and while I don’t get into their politics, as neighbors they are wonderful people who truly care about family.

3509

We’ll see what happens in Utah this November I guess. I’m pretty sure they’re sticking with the party of shitty values though.

3510

Seemed like they were fine with it when a large group voted for him.

3511

They’re not going to suddenly become OK with abortion. When the time comes to vote for Trump vs. ANY Democrat, they will pull the Trump lever every time.

3512

I didn’t fact check, this but IRRC. Utah Republicans voted for a Trump at much lower rates than the rest of the country. Many but not all Utah Republicans are LDS members.

3513

Then they need to not vote period. You don’t vote for Hitler because his opponent supports abortion.

3514

It’s what they’ve done however. The Ends Justify the Means. It’s easier that way. “I’m voting against murder, period.”

Of course, it leads to a complete breakdown, but hey!

3515

And yet the biggest irony of all is that the bible (and by extension, God) support abortion.

Numbers chapter 5.

3516

Yeah but what does two Corinthians say about it?

3517

Isn’t one Corinthian enough? Do we really need the opinions of a pair of them?

3518

Please tell us this isn’t just an autocorrect typo, but a genuine eggcorn of “antithetical”.