Yep. I was like 10 when that happened but it’s the same thing. Clinton had a laundry list of accusers and no one cared on the left.
When the Lewinsky thing came up, as a teenager I was like who cares they’re consenting adults. As an older person, who understands power dynamics, I realize how fucked up it was. He was rightfully impeached, imo.
Hopefully the new generation of Democrats will own this shit instead of being hypocrites. Franken got run out of congress real quick, for example, and legislatively he did a lot of good things.
I think the “problem” with Democrats is they do give a shit about this stuff. They (rightfully, IMO) run out some good politicians like Franken. Democrats seem willing to police their own.
Republicans, on the other hand? They circle the wagons, close ranks, and get in marching order. And it’s probably going to net them an ideologue on the Supreme Court. Feels like asymmetrical warfare where one side “plays by the rules” and the other doesn’t which leads to the GOP winning time and again, but I don’t know what to do about it.
Clinton was elected in 1992, at which time I think there had been no public allegations of sexual assault against him; and again in 1996, at which point he had been sued by Paula Jones (in 1994) for sexual harassment. There were no other such allegations until I think 1998 and later, by which time no Democrat ever voted for Clinton again.
Eh, at the time the Democrats didn’t give one shit about any of that. Hell, the line that dirtbag Graham laid out recently about taking a hundred dollars to a trailer park was originally spoken by dirtbag James Carville.
This was a different time from today, and at this point I think that the Democrats DO care about thist stuff more, like we see with Franken. But at the time, the reality is that Clinton was a womanizing piece of shit. Certainly that wasn’t ALL he was, but it’s most definitely part of what he was.
Ultimately, it’s why adhering to principles is good, because it means you don’t need to figure out why some stuff like this is ok sometimes.
He really was. And he might have been the worst guy to have in office at a time in history that coincided with the inception of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh and the Gingrich revolution, because all that shit gave them a floor to stand on. It is curious that whataboutism blames Democrats for the past in order to excuse Republicans for the present. Seems to me like coming to Jesus should be preferred to stark, cynical hypocrisy, but what do I know.
I disagree. Franken was never accused of anything credible that was particularly bad. The straw that broke the camel’s back was Tina Dupuy’s article in The Atlantic:
I asked to get a picture with him. We posed for the shot. He immediately put his hand on my waist, grabbing a handful of flesh. I froze. Then he squeezed. At least twice.
I seriously cannot read this as Franken trying to grope her. He posed for a photo shoot and gave her a side hug that was too familiar. This is a far different kind of accusation than this:
I was pushed onto the bed and Brett got on top of me. He began running his hands over my body and grinding his hips into me. I yelled, hoping someone downstairs might hear me, and tried to get away from him, but his weight was heavy. Brett groped me and tried to take off my clothes. He had a hard time because he was so drunk, and because I was wearing a one-piece bathing suit under my clothes. I believed he was going to rape me. I tried to yell for help. When I did, Brett put his hand over my mouth to stop me from screaming.
Or this:
He then grabbed my shoulder and began kissing me again very aggressively and placed his hand on my breast. I pulled back and walked to another part of the room. He then walked up, he grabbed my hand and walked me into the bedroom. I walked out. He then turned me around and said, “Let’s lay down and watch some telly telly.”He put me in an embrace and I tried to push him away. I pushed his chest to put space between us and I said come on man, “get real.” He repeated my words back to me, “get real” as he began thrusting his genitals. He tried to kiss me again and with my hand still on his chest I said “dude your trippin right now” attempting to make it clear that I was not interested.
And when Democrats use Franken as an example of their own house cleaning, the standard response is “but whatabout Clinton?” So what did it gain them politically?
The hillarious thing is that seemingly all of the GOP guys, like Gingrich, were actively committing all kinds of womanizing, adulterous acts… WHILE they were preaching about Clinton.
Yep. The GOP and conservative media have spent decades stoking and refining hatred for the Clintons. It’s a core value of their party. They won’t let it go quickly, and I expect them to be running against “Clinton allies” (i.e., any Democratic candidate who has ever been in the same room as either Clinton) for at least another decade.
It’s not like Clinton isn’t still a major personality of the Democratic party. It’s not like he’s confined to the shadows or something.
While I’m not gonna blame his wife for his actions, I’m still gonna think that his actions in this regard appear to have been pretty shitty… and partisanship shouldn’t provide him with a shield.
Even if we stipulate that Democrats messed up and have learned from their lesson, that won’t stop … literally everyone from bringing it up every single fucking time.
It’s like some kind of disease: But what about Clinton, but what about Clinton, and on and on and on.
Well I know I’m not supposed to talk to you, but god, Bill Clinton. it’s been 17 years. If his accusers want to be part of MeToo, go for it. It changes absolutely nothing about GOP. They’re scum right now.
But we can’t go back and un-vote for him. All we can do is say that he’s a shit and that he also shouldn’t be a Supreme Court Justice or in any other position of power.
So how about this. Every time a Republican does something non-shitty, Democrats can respond with, “Yeah, but Newt Gingrish was a royal piece of shit, so nothing else matters.”
The difference is that the Dems do care, and they remove people from office when they are found to have fucked up, while the GOP does everything they can to protect their own, including lying, whitewashing, misleading, whatever it takes to keep their people in power. And their base doesn’t appear to care because of their propaganda outlet also lying, misleading, and whitewashing. I don’t know if the GOP base cares about the truth, because most of them have no idea what the truth actually is. Try to convince them of that though…
But the real issue is that folks wouldn’t even WANT to un-vote for him.
Clinton has still been revered by the Democratic party up until very recently, if not currently.
None of this should be used as an excuse for the GOP… the proper response is to just condemn him for it.
Hillary Clinton wasn’t even revered. Bill Clinton certainly isn’t. This is being stuck in the past, golden example. The old guard in the Democratic party is actually being challenged, right now, in several races. He’s not revered.
This may well be true. Still, what you wrote was wrong.
He seems pretty confined to the shadows from over here. He was a non-factor in both of Obama’s campaigns, and even spent a good part of Hillary’s campaign on the sidelines, precisely because of concern over his past and what current voters might make of it.
