Yeah, he thinks they’re great and always has. He has an ideology, it’s just stupid and horrible.
The only principle they believe in is the Party. I’d actually be interested in how they’d react if Donald decided to be anti-gun next week (which would have the bonus of being hilarious because Donnie was anti-gun until he started running for the GOP). I bet they’d suddenly agree that guns need to be regulated and the like. Or they’d declare that Donnie was controlled by the Jews, which they’d then forget about in a week (see Syria).
It’s sort of semantics at this point, but I’m talking about opposing aggression from other actors. Kuwait gets invaded. Or Ukraine. Historically, the GOP intervenes. Trump? He could give a fuck. He’s fine with dictators doing whatever they want to anywhere and everywhere. Hell, he’ll cover for them if the price is right.
That’s a radical departure from the GOP historically. Remember Putin was a global threat that needed to be opposed. Until Don won the nomination. Then Putin was our best friend and could do anything he wanted. Same for North Korea for the most part.
Maybe, but it’s a dataset of one. The GOP intervened in Kuwait, probably because it was easy, because of oil, because of Saudi Arabia. They did not intervene on behalf of Hungary or Czechoslovakia or Georgia or Ukraine. They were fine with dictators in China and Saudi Arabia and UAE and Chile and so on. If nothing had gone before, and Saddam was around now, and he invaded Kuwait, I imagine the US would intervene. Don’t you?
“I alone can fix this”
“I will bring back manufacturing jobs”
“We will make the best health care plans.”
What Trump is saying in all of these statements, is under my brilliantly leadership the Federal government will do all this great stuff that you need and want.
This is actually the antithesis of small government, the role of the states (Federalism).
But just as important as a political philosophy, conservatism is a state of mind and temperament.
We should be respectful of the old ways and old methods because they have served society well over generations. Temperamentally George HW Bush was a true conservative, even more than Ronald Reagan or Barry Goldwater, “it wouldn’t be prudent”, “don’t brag”, noblesse oblige.
Trump couldn’t give a flying fuck about any tradition, and seemly many of his supporters couldn’t care less either. I think many Republican elected leader do care about this things, but far less than they care about remaining in power, and winning.
Kuwait was a matter of ideology. A lot of people have been talking about it since HW Bush died, but he didn’t care about those things. He saw it as a moral duty.
I mean the GOP has certainly failed to live up to their ideals, but the ideals have been there. Ukraine was under Obama, so we can’t really say much there. Georgia is still regarded as a failure by many conservatives.
Again we’re talking details. Historically the GOP has opposed aggression, even if it was just words.
Now they’re pro-aggressors and kissing their asses. That’s a massive departure. Again Putin went from the largest geopolitical threat in the world from McCain up through the 2016 debates (so 8 year of this being the GOP position, to the point that during the debates they were talking about shooting down Russian planes over Syria), to… our close friend who can do no wrong and we don’t say bad things about. That’s a BIG change and it happened basically over night.
Only parts of society… so again there are certain issues baked into the GOP, current, old, dream that never existed GOP that have been bred for decades. Trump is not a stranger that that just walked in and joined the table. He was birthed right on top of it.
The problem is that I don’t believe that explanation and didn’t believe it then. Kuwait was (is) a corrupt oligarchy ruled by despots who enjoy power because of an accident of geology. The US opposed Saddam’s taking Kuwait because of our oil interests in Kuwait and because of the threat an enriched Saddam would pose to Saudi Arabia. Listening to HW’s speeches about defending freedom at the time might have fooled one, but hearing them now should make one laugh. There were no free people to save and the was no democracy to defend in Kuwait.
Recall that HW was the man who unilaterally invaded Panama. So much for the principle of non-aggression.
Again, if your only understanding of Republicans and conservatives is a Frankenstein-esque “BAD”, then Trump is just more of the same… But every rational person recognizes that Trump is something different.
Trump may be different than your typical Republican these days but the differences are immaterial to me. It’s like stepping in a pile of border collie shit instead of a bulldog’s shit. It’s all shit and ruins your day, no matter the breed.
How is Trump different than, say, Sarah Palin? What about Trump is new? He’s no dumber than Palin. He’s no more mean-spirited than Ryan or clueless than W. He’s no more a philanderer than Gingrich. He’s no more corrupt or disgusting than Hastert or Moore.
Well one leads to the end of democracy and the rule of law.
The other just leads to deficits and shitty policy for the most part. Oh the first one also leads to deficits.
I get what you’re saying (and probably agree for the most part, I left the party a long time ago for a reason), but lets not pretend Trump is some run-of-the-mill Republican. He’s a dire threat to the republic. If he wasn’t as colossally fucking stupid as he is, this experiment would be over. I mean it’s in danger and he’s utterly incompetent in every possible way as are the people helping him. And we still might not make it.
Honestly, if you guys seriously can’t tell that Trump is different, there’s really no way anyone is going to convince you. But you are being totally insane to think so.
Although it perhaps says something, in that apparently you guys think that Republicans were all just as bad as Trump… So really, there was no reason for them to ever be anything other than Trump… Since you judge them the same anyway.
So i guess the lesson they learned is the correct one.
Nothing and no one in this imperfect world is all good or all bad. But you can look at what a person or group has done and judge where they fall, and the GOP and conservative movement in general for the last 20-ish years has been largely tending to evil. From economics (ramping up deficits, policies that promote inequality) to social issues (thinly veiled racism, discrimination against LGBT) to power grabs (voter suppression, the stuff going on in WI/MI legislatures right now) to foreign policy (WMDs in Iraq) to demonizing the opposition (Gringrich-era attacks, Rush Limbaugh, birtherism) to morality hypocrisy (all those family values folks caught with mistresses) and so on. Trump is a logical extension of all this, with the main difference being that he doesn’t really try to hide it, just denys the truth and lies repeatedly and ignores any attempt to correct his falsehoods.
To be clear, I’m not saying that Democrats and the liberal movement are perfect…far from it. But I think their policies tend more to good…inclusion, tolerance, empowerment. You’ll always be able to find a few bad examples, but in the aggregate their side of the aisle is making better decisions.
No he’s not bothering because your position is so far divested from reality that it’s pointless.
If you declare that dogs aren’t real I’m not going to bother trying to convince you. Especially after we spent 2 years looking at pictures of dogs and hanging out with dogs at dog parks.
“Those are cats.”
“You know what, forget it. Have fun with that.”
