2938

So many fucking ghost quest givers.

2939

Well, they’re ghosts, it’s not like they can collect 10 bear asses without a corporeal form. That’s where you come in, bear ass collector guy!

2940

So on main storyline completion, they make you suffer again by re-playing the shitty level 1-20 (it gets better after 25 or so) content for the other 2 factions as endgame content? Who thought this was a good idea?

2941

The question probably bears repeating since it was asked…20 days ago. That’s a lot of sucking up to a director if you hate it so much.

2942

I’m about to cancel but my first paid month past initial just kicked in. Director probably on shaky ground since his boss just got fired so maybe I should just re subscribe to WoW.

2943

Man, no MMO will have the amount of focused, engaged players like WoW again–ESO fansites are dead and inactive nothing like Thottbot, MMC, WoWHead. ESOHead’s blog hasn’t updated since August.

2944

Edit: Removed snark.

You should probably play something else, for your sanity’s sake.

2945

I’ve played every Elder Scrolls game, but refused to hop onto this one. Really don’t have much interest getting sucked into a new MMO like I did with DAoC or LOTRO (I still need to log into each toon and calculate the hours spent playing this one, but I’m not really sure I want to see the final tally because my mind will guilt me out over it. . .hey, that’s a PhD right there, that’s your first novel, etc.).

2946

There’s really not much risk of that happening with modern day MMOs, so I wouldn’t worry.

2947

This really isn’t an accurate description. One could equally describe the subscription model of “$180/year for all you can eat, and if you eat nothing, ha ha ha thanks for the money, chump!” as “overpaying for content” too. I know that in LOTRO, for example, the people who play it as free-to-play are quite happy to “pay for content” when they want to go to a new region, because they’re paying for what they want, and nothing more.

I think the old subscription model works for people who intend to play a game all the time, every day, for months at a time. I certainly can’t think of any game which I would be willing to pay a subscription fee for on that basis. I’m not alone.

2948

Allow me to explain: “Everything was better when I was 13 years old and anything different is objectively worse. Also, I hate and fear change.”

2949

Definitely not alone.

2950

(When asked “Why are you still playing if you hate it so much?”)

Filed under “Why ‘Free To Play + Pay For Stuff’ Is Better Than The Subscription Model.”

2952

I think the key question of what appeals to who hinges on how you expect people to play the game. MMOs have a long and storied history of being The Only Game: people paying $20/month for a subscription are motivated to get their money’s worth, damn it. My own personal way of playing games is “Be obsessed with a game for a week, then ignore it for 6 months. Get into it again for another couple of weeks, then ignore it for another 6 months.”

For games played like that – which for me, includes MMOs like Elder Scrolls Online – the subscription model is a failure. It’s a failure for me, because it means I won’t bother even trying the game, and it’s a failure for Zenimax or whoever because instead of getting anything from me, they get nothing.

Now, if you’re the sort of person who fully intends to spend 2 to 5 hours a night, every night, playing the same game, then of course the “pay for chunks of content” model makes no sense – it seems like crazy talk! But for me, the mere thought of managing the mental burden of dealing with a subscription model for a game that I know I probably won’t even play for a month is the crazy thought.

My claim is that in today’s world, MMOs are, for most gamers, never going to be The Only Game.

2953

Keep in mind that afaik in LOTRO you gained Turbine Points for in game actions, and these points could be spent to purchase new quest packs/zones so you didn’t necessarily have to pay anything.

2954

I somewhat agree with your first reply, but this one is ridiculous. I despise FtP because I’ve seen people pay tens of thousands of dollars on trivial nonsense when people used to have similar experiences for a few months of $15/month. I despise FtP because you often either feel as a “have-not” because you haven’t paid for the same shiny things as other players have, or you feel like an idiot for having spent so much money on virtual goods – it can just change the focus and feel of a game into an experience that constantly feels commercial instead of escapism. I despise FtP because it motivates, if not compels, developers to create deliberately frustrating mechanics and time sinks to encourage players to buy out of them. And lastly, but definitely not least, I despise FtP because being constantly solicited for cash completely disrupts the what I enjoy most out of playing RPGs - immersing myself in their virtual worlds and not being constantly reminded of its artificiality and being begged/tricked/manipulated into breaking out my wallet again.

There may be FtP-constant solicitation models that are less intrusive and offensive – just paying for “what you want” sounds good, but in reality this business model evolved to prey off of whales who would pay far more than what people were previously paying for games, and it’s successful for many of the same reasons that casinos are so profitable- by manipulating people and human nature in base ways. If you think that’s better than instead paying the price of a couple of beer, monthly, well I suspect you’re the one who has the perspective of a 13 year old.

2955

I’ve seen the occasional article about whales, and I believe they exist, but I’ll be blunt: I disbelieve that that’s the predominant revenue stream in games like, say, LoTRo, and any claim that that’s how FtP games make their money requires evidence. I would be willing to bet that the median player pays an order of magnitude less per year than they would be if they were playing Subscription WoW in 2005.

it motivates, if not compels, developers to create deliberately frustrating mechanics and time sinks to encourage players to buy out of them.

I agree, the subscription model does compel developers to create deliberately frustrating mechanics and time sinks to encourage players to buy out of them.

Oh, you were talking about FtP games, and you meant “buy” as in money? Weird. I thought you were talking about traditional subscription MMOs, and were referring to the huge number of dollars poured in to them by players, measured in time.

2956

It sounds like your main issue is just you think $15 is too much money, and you’d feel guilty about “wasting” it if you didn’t play up to 5 hours a night, every night. I’d feel like I got my money’s worth if I enjoyed playing the game for a single night in that month - it’s cheaper than going to a movie, after all, or having a couple of drinks at a bar.

I pay for netflix and yet haven’t used it in months, but I still maintain my subscription because I think it’s a great service that is worthwhile for the occasions when I go on some binge viewing. Sure it’s annoying when your interest in an MMO fades and yet you don’t get around to cancelling your subscription for a few months because you aren’t certain that you want to/then forget about it, etc., but that’s not really a problem with the model.

And subscription models are far far from a failure - in fact, software as a service is increasingly common and successful – that can also be extremely annoying when it’s a product like MS-Word, etc. which offers no real value when delivered in that fashion – but MMOs have obvious server and ongoing content production costs that make the value clearly tangible. Whether or not it’s the right price for you is just a personal decision, but I suspect you’d be less aggressive in your hostility to the model if it was something you viewed as a trivial expense for the enjoyment it imparts. But I certainly wouldn’t feel compelled to play 5 hours/night, or 150 hours a month, to feel like I got 2 beers worth of gaming value. That just sounds stressful, not fun.

2957

I’ll go further than that - the median player of a FtP game likely pays zero, because most players are happy to pay zero. I don’t share that view, for the reasons I indicated, because the “free” experience is something I despise, for the reasons I articulated and you ignored. But clearly lots of people like all the free games on mobile platforms and PC and never pay for anything.

You talk about “whales” as if they’re some potential myth, or even if you concede they exist, you don’t think they’re that important. Honestly, if you don’t understand the business model that created these games, and how they make their money, and are just going to arbitrarily disbelieve it, then you’re basing your argument on a fantasy. It is disheartening that people are manipulated into spending hundreds and thousands of dollars on the solicitation fostered by FtP, but it’s not exactly contestable. Just look at the financials of any of the public companies that rely upon these games.

2958

So, just to make sure I understand you:

-Getting $180/year from people who don’t actually play the game: fine, no problem, totally OK, Mega-American.
-Getting $180/year from people who play the game but spend that $180 on, say, fancy hats: evil incarnate.

Is that a fair summary?

(I am waving my hand at your “the FtP sales notifications ruin my experience” argument because that’s an implementation detail. I’ve subscribed to services that made it well-nigh impossible to cancel subscriptions - Columbia House Records, anyone? - but it wouldn’t be fair to accuse all subscription models of that. Attributing a bad FtP banner ad experience to the entire model is similarly throwing the baby out with the bath-water. I can think of 10 iPad games off the top of my head which are free to play, which have in-app purchases, and yet are totally innocuous and awesome. And, keeping it in the MMO discussion, I was a LoTRo user both before and after they went FtP (i’m a lifetime sub) and the main thing I noticed from the switch is now there are actually other players online.)