The Everything Else P&R

$1.5B in subsidies to attract a company to NYC. What a fucking joke. Wonder how much Cuomo gets as a kickback.

I suppose that you can chalk me up as one of those Godless heathens who is pursuing the “War on Christianity”.

My late-in-life child in the 3rd grade brought home her recorder songbook this week. I glanced through the 8 or so songs in it. “When the Saints” was one. I am not exactly sure that belongs in school since it is a religious hymn but I am a fan of jazz so I let that one slide. I flipped to the next page and got to “Amazing Grace”. Bugger me. It does not get to be much more of a religious endorsement than that. I have emailed the music teacher tonight and copied the principal politely suggesting they substitute more appropriate songs.

We will see if they decide to remove these. If not, my next email is to the school board with a copy to the ACLU. I have little tolerance for religious dogma being slipped in to the curriculum.

They won’t. These songs have been standard for, what, 200 years? Not saying it’s right.

We will see. Amazing Grace is beyond the pale as that song has no non-religious context. I have no qualms about petitioning the ACLU to examine this.

Fight the good fight, man. Best of luck.

Use the words to the Gilligan’s Island theme song with the amazing grace music.

It’s just an old, easy to play song. And really, it’s a nice song.

I mean Handel’s Messiah is a religious work too, i guess? Schools shouldn’t introduce that to kids? Or Ode to Joy, one of the greatest compositions in music? Or gospel music?

While you may not be religious, you cannot reasonably deny the central role of religion through humanity’s history. And as a result, a huge amount of humanity’s art has some relation to religion, much of it a very direct relation.

Relax dude, it doesn’t infect you with Jesus AIDS or something.

That sucks. Hopefully you offered an alternative of that beautiful song, rather than just proclaim it bad.

I found this less religious version out there. According to wikipedia, there are 3,000 version, but this one doesn’t have as much religious overtones.

Amazing grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost
But now I’m found
Was blind, but now I see

'Twas grace that taught
My heart to fear
And grace my Fears relieved
How precious did
That grace appear
The hour I first believed

Through many dangers
Toils and snares
We have already come
'Twas grace hath brought
Us safe thus far
And grace will lead us home

When we’ve been there
Ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun
We’ll have no less days to sing God’s praise
Than when we first begun

Amazing grace
How sweet the sound
That saved a wretch like me
I once was lost
But now I’m found
Was blind, but now I see

Personally, I have always been of the opinion that it’s not enough to just complain about something, but you have to offer a constructive solution. If you don’t like a particular piece of music, than offer an alternative that the kids can play. Something that sweet and simple.

How about Silent Night?

I wasn’t sure if you were trolling with those lyrics until I reached this bit

This is the type of thing said by someone who does not mind promoting their religion at the expense of others. I could use the exact same argument to justify reading from the Bible in class. After all, many consider that greatest writing (writing is art) compositions in history can be found in the Bible. 'Today children we are going to learn 3 stories. Here is Jack and the Beanstalk, Cinderella and the Book of Genesis." Do you still think there is no issue? Or it is that since this is music class we should let indoctrination slide a bit?

If you want religion please feel free to worship at your local church/temple/synagogue but keep schools out of it unless taught from a historical standpoint. If this were an exploration of the world’s religious music then I would have no problem with it. For instance, if Rahman ya Rhaman and Shalom Aleichem were included then it is educational. Multiculturalism is a good thing. When 1/4th of the songs presented are Christian hymns then that is a problem because that is a clear attempt at indoctrination. That is mono-culturalism. Please learn the difference.

Keep Jesus AIDS out of schools and Amazing Grace sucks bollocks.

Quite interesting to see those who profess fairness suddenly become raging despots when they cannot impose their own religion upon others.

Kids shouldn’t read the most important book in history?

Learning about religion is not indoctrination.

CLEAR ATTEMPT

Kids shouldn’t read the most important book in history?

Learning about religion is not indoctrination.

Learning about only one religion is.

It is debatable whether the Bible is the most important book in history. It is not debatable that it is one of the least accurate. Shall we teach flat Earth theory as well? Moreover, this again is an attempt at establishment.

So what percentage should be acceptable? 33%? 50% Or so long as we have one secular song in there it is fine?

You guys make me both laugh and shake my head at your hypocrisy. You profess to want equality for all people but when it threatens your ability to promote your little invisible toy you get your hackles up and suddenly rely on the tyranny of the majority to try to get your way.

It really isn’t. We’re done here.

Usually strawmans around here pretend to try.

Frankly, yeah, i generally think that kids should be exposed to religious works, because they are an important aspect of human civilization.

I mean, do you freak it out if they teach your kid about the ancient Greek Pantheon? Or the Norse one?

They’re stories. They are mythologies that have shaped human civilisation. You should know the story in the book of Genesis. Knowing it helps you understand innumerable references in our culture.

And just like you can learn about Thor and Odin and Zeus and Appolo without worshipping them as Gods, you can learn about Christianity and be exposed to it without becoming a Christian.

Again, religion is a massive part of human civilization. Your kids is going to be at a disadvantage if you try to spend them from exposure to it. You are not only going to deny them access to an immense amount of humanity’s greatest creations, but you are going to home their ability to simply understand many aspects of popular culture, because they will lack the necessary cultural references.

It’s the mirror of the crazy religious nuts who deny their kids exposure to various aspects of culture and art because they don’t fit with their religious preconceptions. It’s just a different kind of zelotry.

Not in public school, no. The kids can take a comparative religion class in college if they want to, or, you know, they can read it at home or one of the eight billion churches in America.

In the American elementary and secondary educational system it absolutely is.

We are done. You are a true Christian Warrior with all the baggage that comes with it. Enjoy carrying around your cross but note that it does not fit through the schoolhouse doorway. Nice to see your true colors.

Usually strawmans around here pretend to try.

That was a question, not a strawman. I suggest you learn the difference. Exactly what percentage do you think is the minimum threshold before this is an attempt at establishment?