I still agree with plenty of what you’re saying here, Granath. (But, still, getting the ACLU involved seems like bananapants territory.) Back to lego’s wise words, I think you could find yourself in a stronger position if you were fighting or advocating for something rather than against. Alternative song suggestions to either replace Amazing Grace or balance it out from another religious perspective.
Yeah, you mentioned that the saints and amazing Grace were there, and caused all this freaking out… but i didn’t realize that they were just part of a list of 8 songs. What were the other songs?
I guess i was under the impression that the others were also religious by your judgement too.
I do not have the background to suggest alternatives which is why I was clearly facetious when asked earlier (that someone thought that F*** the Police was a serious suggestion for 3rd graders strikes me as very funny). I have no background in music and do not know what this level can or can not play. So in this instance I can only point out what is the problem and not solutions.
Then maybe asking that question of the music teacher would be a good approach. “Do you know other songs that could either replace or balance out this concert?”
Timex, now that you have clearly established you have not even bothered to read much of the thread I am less inclined than ever to catch you up for your benefit. Please feel free to head on back to post 212 or so and start from there.
Best of luck to your child.
I asked for substitutions. However, yours is a good suggestion and perhaps I could have asked for balance instead. If that is what they come back with then obviously I would be in support of that. How hard could it be to play the terrible dreidel song on a recorder? I imagine Song of the Khalsa would probably be beyond that grade level.
LOL, that’s so rude! Hilarious but so rude. Didn’t you apologize earlier??
For better or worse, slavery, the fight against slavery, and the struggle for civil rights that followed the end of slavery, forms a major part of many U.S. school curriculum. Which is another way of saying “I learned about Amazing Grace in school in the context of it being a song written by a slave-trader turned abolitionist.” Granath, on the other hand, learned of Amazing Grace as being “written by a member of the Church of England” which clearly impacts his understanding of this situation. I’d be hesitant to convict on the evidence presented, but I do understand his concern.
But his reference to the Church of England got me thinking: Are Shakespeare’s plays religious indoctrination (since they contain so many religious references) and if so should we view them as Anglican propaganda regardless of whether or not we believe that Shakespeare was a secret Catholic and / or Atheist?
I’m coming at this from more of a high school level, and I realize it was champtramp, not Granath who brought “secondary school” into this whole debate, but I find the attitude that “exposing students to knowledge = indoctrination” to be troublesome.
We can let Tom decide if this is an appropriate sentiment, even for P&R.
It is highly inappropriate to even offhandedly insult someone’s child and you should be ashamed of yourself.
I’m pretty comfortable with how I’ve conducted myself here.
Dude, I wasn’t insulting your child.
I’m not sure what you thought you were saying but it comes across as strong statement that Granath is a bad parent
Yes, it was an insult directed at him, not his child.
No, you did by stating that I am a bad parent and that they will need luck to grow up without being somehow damaged.
I understand the intent of your insult and it is one you would only make behind the safety of your keyboard. That you felt a need to go there when it was pointed out that you clearly kept responding to a post you never bothered to read is pathetic and says much about you but none of it good.
Well, c’mon, we all know Timex is gonna Timex. And you were being pretty out there too. I mean, the ACLU has better things to do than this. Protecting your child from excessively-intrusive organized religion makes sense but protecting them from Amazing Grace doesn’t. Especially without the lyrics being sung.
I still don’t see why extreme arguing is so often the default mode of forum conversation.
Atheist with a capital A here. Kids are indoctrinated simply by being in culture. Amazing Grace on a recorder (they’re not even singing the words!) ain’t gonna be the thing that turns them into a god botherer. (#1 reason people convert? Dating/marrying a faither.) Most Americans are Christian, so a representative sample of culture here will also be Christian. Exposure to stuff like this is an opportunity to discuss the pervasiveness of cultural influences and how/why to resist them. It’s not like your kid is being asked to swear an oath of fealty or anything; the ACLU isn’t gonna take the case.
You know, i was pretty comfortable with how i conducted myself. I actually still am. You were not really engaging in a thoughtful manner, and you insulted and belittled folks, suggesting that my and others opinions were based in our belief in “magical pixies”.
Now, this was actually after i had already pointed out that i myself am not a Christian at all. But even ignoring that, you actually made an attempt to belittle what you THOUGHT was my religion. But i let that slide too. And the other direct insults.
Eventually, i got fed up with it.
But all that being said, I didn’t actually mean for that insult to hit you as hard as it did apparently, given i had no actual exposure to any of your parenting, and my judgement on the matter means nothing. But even so, I’m sorry for the insult. I’m sure you’re a perfectly fine parent
Yep yep yep. Seems like the sensible way to look at it.
Soon after my kids started elementary school I learned that most teachers say that the worst part of the job is dealing with parents. Ever since then, I’ve made damn sure to not be part of that problem. That’s where my first sympathies went when this conversation started.
Also, I’d like to nominate “Best of luck to your child.” as the official end-quote of every argument in P&R. With Granath’s blessing, of course.
Man playing Civ IV sucked every time I heard Baba Yetu blaring at me. The Lord’s Prayer indeed.