This is interesting:
https://digitalcommons.law.byu.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1162&context=elj
It seems like the 1st amendment law on this has been pretty much settled, and the “Amazing grace as part of a Christmas concert” case is definitely allowed, but there is a limit to what is allowed.
I’m not even sure the melody would be recognizable on third grade recorders.
How sweet the sound? I don’t think so.
Naw, just want to de-christianize public schools. That’s also a lot of work, but entirely appropriate work.
Just had a story in the local paper today about a small town an hour outside the big city whose second grade teacher led her class in a bible verse and then posted it to the class page with the statement ‘The day just gets off to a better start with a Bible verse. Here’s the verse for today.’, followed by video of the class reciting the verse en masse.
That is in no way ok for a public school, and the supreme court has thankfully already agreed.
Given that the essence of your rebuttal is to say that students are free during school and school events to pray as individuals privately and silently — which is to say, invisibly and undetectably — and that they can pray in a school building as long as it isn’t part of any public school function, it wasn’t a particularly meaningful correction. Of course students can pray undetectably, because their prayer cannot be detected. Of course they can pray in the building when isn’t being use as a school or for a school function. That said, the courts have ruled that audible or organized prayer isn’t permitted in public schools when they’re functioning as public schools. That’s the truth, right?
This actually wasn’t the case. Two of the 8 songs were loosely related to Christianity. When the saints come marching in is really not Christian at all, other than a reference to the saints… and the reference to Grace in amazing Grace could apply to really any theistic religion. Hell, even non theistic religions could accept the concept of Grace.
If it was entirely religious songs than I’d agree, if it was 75% maybe, but that isn’t the case it was 2 out 8.
Hymn, unlike prayers, have a secular component. I’m an atheist but I think Amazing Grace has a beautiful melody. The religious aspect is the lyrics, which evidently there are many variations. Maybe I missed it but I thought the kids were playing the song not singing it?
Outside of schools, prayers are allowed in pretty much all aspects of public life. Here in Hawaii, virtually every public event starts with a Hawaiian prayer/chant, roughly 1/2 also include a Christian prayer. Not understanding Hawaiian and being an atheist I find both things annoying and a waste of time. But I don’t have a constitutional right to not be offend or annoyed, and the rest of the public seems to think it is important to Hawaiian and Christian prayers, so I shut up.
I agreed that are many nuances and pretty much every article I’ve read over the last 20 years or so on the subject, says the Supreme Court is not 100% consistent. That said, @ShivaX article is the same as my interpretation. You can’t have school sponsor prayers, but most other religious activities are fine as long as there is an educational value, and students have the option to opt out. Granath’s issue isn’t close.
Hey, Hawaiian prayers sound cool.
Sure the first 20 or 50 times, not so much after that. I know generations of Catholics spend hours week listen to Mass in Latin, so it is trivial issue be annoyed about.
Result: They changed the songs.
To some of you thank you for your understanding. To others? Merry Christmas.
Glad it worked out for you!
Now we wait and see what happens when some other parent finds out they removed Amazing Grace… Tonight on Fox News!
I’m glad to hear you were able to make a difference. Out of curiosity, do you know what song replaced Amazing Grace? I’m curious whether you “traded up” musically speaking?
And happy holidays to you.
-Tom
Well, that scares and upset me.
If this doesn’t get intense scrutiny by the press they are worse than useless.
Holy. Fucking. Shit.
This is a good closing quote they used
As President Dwight D. Eisenhower, who retired from the military as a five-star general after leading Allied forces to victory in World War II, said in a 1953 speech, “Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.”
I like Ike’s longer grown up version of the childish Anarchist slogan “Property is theft” or the outright stupid “Taxes are theft” from their backward right wing Libertarian siblings.
The conclusion is clear - we need more military spending. Why don’t you folks support the TROOPS?!
Andrew Sullivan wasn’t getting enough attention apparently, so now we have this.
I don’t know, he might be on to something. I stopped going to church at 14, and apparently not coincidentally started following politics.
/s
It’s political cults and secondary worlds. Kids these days memorize the powers of the X-Men and the weapons and bandana colors of the Ninja Turtles instead of the names of the saints, and the geography of Middle-Earth instead of the political makeup of 0th century Judea, and the politics of good old Harry Potter’s school houses instead of how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, and they won’t get off my lawn.