The former Miramax production executive was McGowan’s manager in January 1997, when the actress has claimed she was raped by Weinstein in a hotel suite at the Sundance Film Festival.
In October, McGowan told The New York Times that her meeting with Weinstein was arranged by Messick — and that she was comforted by the manager after divulging details of the attack.
A statement from Messick’s family:
“Jill was victimized by our new culture of unlimited information sharing and a willingness to accept statement as fact. The speed of disseminating information has carried mistruths about Jill as a person, which she was unable and unwilling to challenge,” they said.
“She became collateral damage in an already horrific story… Jill was many things, but she was not a liar.”
Quite a jump from trying to encourage participation to rape culture. It’s more likely, being Utah, they are just trying to get the girl ready to marry off and have kids at 18.
It’s hard to say. This could be all sorts of things. It might belong in the Liberal Stupidity thread or some religious topic.
I know there’s some occasional strangeness that pops up similar to this when it comes to transgender people and dating; does the person showing interest in the transgender person have a right to know if they’re transgender? There’s a minority who seem to think they do not, else they would reject them out of hand.
It might be - again, pure guesswork - that in a heavily white school district, minority students were getting left out, so they passed a rule that the girls had to say yes just as a social etiquette thing. Of course now that looks pretty bad.
Back in the day when I had to do dancing as part of the school curriculum, country western by the way, we were all required to do it and they told us who we would dance with. This was in California.
There’s a difference between school curriculum mandated participation and a school dance.
There is no perfect answer here, though I do tend towards the school districts choice being worse than doing nothing.
I get why they would look at addressing this, after all there can be some real harm from the way kids treat each other. I’m sure we all know stories, many of them probably our own, of emotional trauma from social rejection. Imagine you’re the kid who no one will dance with, it can be quite the scarring experience.
But on the other hand this ‘solution’ is flirting with some bad places. Now I don’t think the intent was such, but teaching prepubescent children they have a right to another persons body and/ or personal space is absolutely wrong. It wasn’t the lesson they were aiming for, I’m sure, but it sure was one a few kids would have gotten.
One of those situations where there is harm being done either way, but that the original harm is something people need to learn, and teach their kids, how to deal with. And trying to mitigate it most likely makes it worse.
I just read that and that’s a super gloomy end for her. I don’t know what happened or how it happened, but this might have been one of those situations where everyone’s perspectives of what they did and what was going on around them were just irreconcilable.
Honestly that’s the first thing about the #metoo phenomenon that has actually given me pause. It’s not Weinstein jumping off a bridge, it’s the woman who was accused of not doing enough to protect another woman from him or enabling him. :/… sigh
Ultimately you can’t force kids to like people. You can teach kids that people are different and those differences are great, etc… but they’re still under no obligation to like people who are different than them. Nerds are still gunna nerd, weirdos gunna weirdo, and people who are different from everyone else are still going to be different then everybody else. If you live in a more monoculture environment, those differences might well be insurmountable until they’re older.
I just remembered there was an article about a woman whose life was ruined because her mom made her attend a dance with some boy to be polite. So I guess this is a thing.
I get it. It sucks to be the socially isolated kid. And I really didn’t have great support around me for dealing with that. My parents tried, but they didn’t have the answers. Now I think things are better, and people are broadly more understanding of these things than they were 25 years ago.
In the end I had to work out for myself how to deal with the rejections and the bullying. And sometimes that meant going against the well meaning, but ultimately wrong, advice from adults. I don’t wish that upon any kids, but ultimately it is a hard lesson people need to take. Bypassing it entirely doesn’t remove the underlying issue, and creates whole new ones.
No one on the ‘coastal frequency’ cares to delve into such subjects, but the reverse goes on all the time in Texas, to use examples i know personally. Almost to the point where we’ve entered almost a kind of ‘reverse bussing’ era. Because the hispanic population is growing so rapidly a good 25%+ of elementary schools are not just majority Hispanic but Spanish speaking. I’ve known people who were forced to move to get their kids out of majority Hispanic schools because they would be only one of a handful of white, english-first speaking kids, and they were bullied and attacked constantly. There’s almost an unspoken understanding that if you’re kids are white and their assigned school is in a certain area, your kids just get a free bus pass to wherever you need to them to go, no questions asked.
It’s easy to tell everyone to get along. It’s hard to get along when you don’t even speak the same language. But there aren’t going to be long articles written about those sorts of white kids and the problems they’ve faced, rightly or wrongly. Integrating really different populations at that age is just very, very hard.
I don’t. We’re talking about 11 and 12 year olds here. just at the time when some kids are starting to become interested in things like dating. Not seriously, but some do. Plus the very beginnings of puberty are hitting. So this is a very awkward time for kids.
And what lesson do you think a boy takes away from that, or a girl? They could take away the ‘be nice to each other’ lesson, or they could get the seeds of the red pill mentality, where ‘I asked nicely therefore I deserve for her to say yes’ breeds this toxic stew. Or a girl has lessons reinforced about how what she wants isn’t important.
It wasn’t the intent, but I assure you that this would contribute to issues like those.
I don’t think they do elementary school dances here. My daughters school district doesn’t. Dances didn’t start until junior high and were totally voluntary.
I see this as the school trying to give every kid a chance to dance, and I am sure their are adult (and probably parent) monitors on site to make sure some boy doesn’t get carried away.
Why condemn something were the odds of the event causing harm are probably much less than many other day to day events? The kids lives will be molded by so many other events and individuals that this just seems like a weird thing to blame.
Kinda makes me think of the argument involving allowing transgenders into bathrooms, I mean they both are really such small things with very little chance of causing harm.
We have a problem with some men really thinking they’re entitled to women. They literally believe if they are nice, do everything right, that she has no valid reason to say no… as if she needs a valid reason to say no. It’s not a minor problem. This mentality of entitlement starts pretty early… sometimes a girl says no, because she says no, and that’s it.
I understand them wanting to encourage everyone to participate and have fun, but these schools should not force kids to dance. They just shouldn’t. They took a socially awkward time and situation which was probably not the best time for rejected boys and instead forced the entirety of that weight on the girls instead.
If the evergreen topic of high school and issues dealt with in erstwhile YA books and fiction that are devoured by adults are any indication, these small slights and grievances are amplified in intensity and effect far more than perhaps at any other stage in life. And in truth these things do matter - the cascade into innumerable small changes that can dramatically change a kids’ trajectory in life. So in a sense the kids are right to take this stuff more seriously than we do.
And i’d bet money if you sampled 10,000 people randomly most of them would still harbor stronger, more intense memories of getting their lunch money stolen from them at 10 than getting fired from their job at 30.
So i’m not super comfortable telling 6th or 7th grade girls they have to dance with the smelly weirdo with blood in his ears because it’s no big deal from where i’m sitting. Or, at the least, assuming without reflection that it’s no big deal.
We can agree (maybe) to disagree. I think it’s wrong to sweat the little things when there are so many big things out there.
And I imagine if a parent didn’t want their kid at the dance they could opt out. Most schools would allow that. I wonder how the kid would feel about that though.
Teaching kids that it’s not OK to say “no” is not a little thing. And the option to make your kid a social outcast by having him/her not attend isn’t really an option at all.
Do you really think that this is the best way to teach inclusiveness to children? I mean, there are an infinite number of other ways to do that that don’t involve ingraining this lesson into kids.
The school is being dumb and they will back down for sure. This is not how to accomplish what they’re trying to accomplish.
