His statement is indeed carefully worded. He denies “sexual assault,” but not necessarily the controlling and abusive behavior.
Sounds like he’s not a rapist, but he could very well be a gigantic sleezebag.
Plenty of those to go around, for sure.
It’s very possible that they were both controlling and abusive to each other. Sounds like a messed up relationship. He could have done everything she said. And yet, she could have been just as abusive or manipulating. Frankly, today’s environment is not one where he should fire back, even if she did.
I do think a romantic relationship is a very different situation than a Weinstein situation, where there is a clear imbalance in the power in the relationship. In a romantic relationship, things are much more complicated.
Messy.
I am not sure if you read the article, but there is a large chunks of her experiences that a man simply could not experience… due to biology. It couldn’t possibly be “the same,” or “just as” abusive.
I’m not sure from your statement if you have determined which one is the psychopath?
There is a chance there was total communication breakdown between the two early on. He was so self-centered and into himself he didn’t bother to think about why she was crying, upset, and withdrawn. She slowly checked out, so maybe she didn’t (or couldn’t) speak up to advocate for herself and her feelings. “I prefer not to have sex” is different than a solid “no” to a male who is only thinking of himself. So she sees and felt the assault, and he just thought she was moody, depressed, and stated a preference.
It’s concerning she brought up his control of her alcohol consumption as if it was a surprise - if he did in fact tell her ahead of time there would not be a relationship due to his past alcoholism. If she mis-construed that situation it could cast doubt on some of her other recollections, and it terrifies me that because of this it could lead misogynists to throw out her entire essay, and further attack every women who come out for #metoo.
If she cheated in him at the end, I don’t hold that against her since she was in such a miserable position, but once again that situation will in many eyes negate any/all of the potential abuse she suffered… if the cheating really even happened.
For those wondering why she didn’t get out of the relationship earlier. When one loves the S.O. there’s always the hope they will change for the better and become the person they first met again. That’s a strong thread of hope that’s hard to cast off. Also, when one is being intensely controlled, they often don’t consider leaving a real option because they’ve lost so much of their individualism.
You’re seriously going to judge on two posts from the parties involved that, categorically, the person with the XY chromosomes must have been the more abusive party in the relationship. A little biased, no? Could the abuse have taken different forms? Sure. But as long as it is emotional, and not physical abuse, both parties can be equally f-ed up in a mess of a relationship.
And yes, I read her article and his release. Assume, for the second, that she also exhibited emotional abuse. Do you think today’s environment would be a good place for Hardwick to write his own article detailing her emotional abuse?
Seriously no, because that’s not what I said so there is that.
You understand what an ectopic pregnancy is right? It can kill you. It’s not a minor thing to remove or experience. It’s like a miscarriage, they often have to remove the tube… it’s hugely traumatic, dangerous and emotional. There isn’t really an equivalent to when can I have sex again for a woman to use against a guy like that. She’s more likely to leave or cheat on him then just wonder how soon she can jump his bones.
It’s just different.
You want to equate their experiences as the same on an emotional level despite neither one of them claiming that, sure, go ahead. I’m talking about the physical experiences here.
If what she said is true at that moment, in the hospital, if that’s true, that’s going to define his character above all the rest.
I’m frankly not sure what your position is, Nesrie. Is it that women always, categorically, suffer more than men in emotionally abusive relationships? That women can never be as abusive (or more abusive) then men, because of the biological consequences of abuse mean that the guy is never as vulnerable? If those aren’t your positions, then what?
I’ll state my position: this particular relationship sounds messed up as hell (that was clear from Dykstra’s post, alone) and it’s really hard to judge the abusiveness of both of the parties in an environment where Hardwick can’t respond to Dystra’s post. He could have been the sole abuser or majority abuser. They both could have been totally messed up. We don’t know and we can’t know because you’ll never hear his side and she (not surprisingly) won’t be the voice of her own culpability (if any).
No. That is not my position.
But if this guy watched his significant other go through the traumatic and emergent event that she describes as her ectopic pregnancy and his response was as she describes, then it’s not remotely the same.
This does not sound like just two people screaming at each other every night, but even if it was… in order for it to be “the same”, she would have to sexually assault him, constantly, hold his hand through an emergent event, and then ask immediately, while still in the care of their providers, when she could have sex with him, wanting to know as soon as possible. and demand he work under her and hide out in hotel rooms wherever they went.
Maybe they were in shouting matches every night but what are the chances of all the things above being something she made him experience too? One of them is simply not possible… the rest are highly unlikely. You think she did those things, made him stay in hotel rooms, had someone maybe hold his chemo bag so she could have sex with him while he was recovering, forced him on camera for a company she doesn’t appear to have?
But you’re right, both of them could have approached the relationship in unhealthy ways but that doesn’t explain the physical things above. I’m not talking about shouting and word games… these acts that she can probably backup because she says she can.
Of course this is all if she is telling the truth. His response doesn’t really refute her.
What did Nesrie say that prompted you to wonder if her position is that “women always, categorically, suffer more than men in emotionally abusive relationships”?
Nesrie said this:
The second sentence, in particular.
It probably says a lot about me, but humor is basically the only way I know how to deal with deeply emotional or stressful situations. I probably wouldn’t have made that joke were I in his place, but I would have made some sort of joke. That’s just all I’ve got to process that stuff.
I don’t see the connection between her comment and the possibility that she could be claiming that women always suffer more in abusive relationships.
I noticed there are two topics on this. I am not sure if this part of the MeToo stuff because of her career or if it’s more like, oh my god what was happening here.
If it was a joke, and he already decided respond right, shouldn’t he have said that? He’s not addressing her specifics. He just made a blanket denial and then said she cheated on him. He probably should have left the whole cheated piece out since it’s not really… relevant.
I’ve already responded, twice, that’s not what I intended with that statement. I think he’s just going to keep asking me though.
Nesrie has cleared up her position, so I think it’s a moot point. You obviously read it differently than I do, but that was my reading of it, before Nesrie clarified.
For a person that spends a lot of time on this board accusing people of reading things into your actions and words that aren’t there, you seem happy to do the same. How about not doing the same, eh?
You asked me twice about this position. I responded twice, and elaborated both times. I even separated my sentence and said no, that’s not my position. I am not asking you to mind read. I clarified.
And don’t be so damn rude…
It’s a moot point in its specifics, but it seemed to me that you might have been deliberately stating her case in the worst possible terms, e.g., “So is it your position that absolutely every single woman never tells a lie?” or “Are you saying that not a single immigrant committed a single crime in their home country?”
I read your first response as frankly reinforcing my reading of your first post, not refuting it. The discussion of ectopic pregnancy was, to me focusing on the fact that men can’t experience the same consequences of abuse. Nothing in that post clarified your position, to me. Your second post was much more clear.
As to the rudeness, your preemptive remark on me asking you again was rude as hell. So, to reduce the rudeness, I’ll stop engaging with you.
You’re here to just stir up the pot? Thanks for mind-reading my deliberate actions here. You’re free to judge my intent from my posts, but I’m not seeing why you have a desire to rile things up with your ridiculous examples.
Did you look back at my original post that Nesrie responded to? What point do you think Nesrie was making in response to my observation that today’s environment makes disclosure of abuse in messed up relationships mostly a one-way road? I’m not judging whether he was abusive or not (if half of what she says was true, he clearly was). Rather, I was saying that she may have been abusive, as well. That was what Nesrie responded to with her comment.
Yeah, fortunately, only one of them seemed to have gotten extremely sick during their relationship, so only one of them had a chance to respond to that. As far as I know, there was no reverse experience. We can’t literally know how she would have responded if he had been the one facing a dire medical situation. That pregnancy was life threatening. I wanted to make sure you realized that. The fear of pregnancy… it’s not same same between men and women. It’s just not that same thing experience. She describes it, in the article; it’s big chunk of her written experience.