3048

“Believe women”, to me at least, doesn’t mean “assume that they’re 100% speaking factual and don’t believe the men in the story”.

To me, it’s just a mindset that I should usually give women the benefit of the doubt in these situations, because they have far more at stake to their reputations than the men they’re accusing. The meme before #metoo and #timesup was that “women are just accusing these powerful men to get attention” - yeah, and look at all of that attention the women who accused Weinstein and Cosby got out of this //rolls eyes//

In the case of Chloe Dykstra and Chris Hardwick, Dykstra didn’t outright name him in her original complaint. She chose not to participate in AMC’s investigation into Hardwick as well. What she wanted to do was share her experience, and that’s it.

I have been adamant since I came forward with my essay that I never set out to ruin the career of the person I spoke about. I could have provided more details on the matter but chose not to. I have said what I wanted to say on the matter and I wish to move on with my life. I chose not to participate in the investigation against the person I spoke of. For that reason, I do not believe in an eye for an eye, and therefore I have only shared my evidence with those who I felt should see it.

Regarding closure, I wish I had been able to have a private conversation with with the person I spoke about in my essay,” she wrote. “Reaching out to him over texts made me vulnerable, and ultimately ended up in a tabloid article where said texts were chopped up and spun to discredit me.

In the meantime, Chris Hardwick seems like he’s still trying to take the low road:

At this point, yes, I choose to “believe women” - I choose to believe that Chloe Dykstra is telling the truth, and that Chris Hardwick seems like a pretty sleazy dude. He certainly doesn’t deserve to be prosecuted in the court of law given what everyone knows at this point, as there’s obviously no concrete evidence of any wrongdoing, or whether what Chloe is accusing him of is even outright illegal instead of scummy in the first place.

But given how Hardwick has handled the whole thing so far, I’ll happily not watch anything he ever does, or give my money or eyes to anything he works on from here on out.

3049

Well put. I have no interest in anything he does, so I’ve got no skin in the game so to speak, but you outline a very reasonable approach.

Believe women, to me, simply means taking what they say seriously. It doesn’t mean automatically acting as if it is 100% true, but it means not immediately dismissing it as people are wont to do.

3050

And in the case of Aziz Ansari and Al Franken?

Well, neither seems to have done anything nearly as bad as the other men accused during #metoo, but they’re both still eye opening stories about how “normal behavior” or “just making jokes” can make women feel uncomfortable, even if at the time what they did didn’t really seem that bad or worth losing their jobs over.

On the other hand, Jim Jordan is likely running for Speaker of the House if the GOP retains it.

And then there’s Steve Wynn - who the GOP has of course not returned their donations to, unlike what the DNC did with Weinstein’s donations and how the DNC handled Al Franken:

3051

That dude looks like a Dick Tracey villain.

3052

Pruneface?

3053

He resigned. I have no idea how many people would have voted for him had he not. After the recent state DFL primary, I assume a lot, but I don’t know.

Also, why do people use “whataboutism” so selectively? Literally, my point about Keith Ellison was immediately responded to with “whataboutism.”

And then followed with, “Oh yeah, what about Al Franken.”

It feels like a joke when people use it here.

3054

Yeah, franken is a pretty bad counter example.

He resigned of his own accord, taking responsibility for his actions.

And it wasn’t really a case of believing the woman. There were actual pictures.

3055

Well, it was. That, plus a cheap trick.

3056

After a large contingent of his own party asked for him to do so.

You talked as if there are no examples of those danged “libruls” holding one of their own accountable. There is a very big example in Franken.

3057

No, I didn’t talk like that. I talked like I talked. You will likely continue to alter that in your own head, to make it sound like you want, however.

There’s not much value in talking with someone who changes what someone else says and then tells them what they “really said.”

3058

God, now it’s just getting funny. A “cheap trick.” Yeaaahhhh.

3059

It worth reading AMC comments.

“Following a comprehensive assessment by AMC, working with Ivy Kagan Bierman of the firm Loeb & Loeb, who has considerable experience in this area, Chris Hardwick will return to AMC as the host of ‘Talking Dead’ and ‘Talking with Chris Hardwick.’ We take these matters very seriously and given the information available to us after a very careful review, including interviews with numerous individuals, we believe returning Chris to work is the appropriate step,” AMC said in a statement.

I was recently involved in a similar situation to Chris. The CEO of a non-profit was accused of improper behavior in a previous position (yes it involved sex). He denied it. As a board member of the non-profit, I was convinced the CEO was innocent, all the women on the board were convinced he was innocent, as were a couple of us guys. A majority of the board elected to suspend the CEO, while an independent investigator was hired. A number of employees were also convinced that he was innocent., virtually all of the people he interacted with where convinced that the board was acting improperly. Lawyers were hired and lawsuits were threatened. One of the women on the board resigned in large part because of his treatment. After months the investigation wrapped up and it turned out he was guilty of what he was accused of. He reluctantly admitted to it when confronted with physical evidence. We fired him for lying to us. The board issued a statement very similar to AMC with the opposite conclusion. A couple of employee who believed he was innocent quit after he was fired. Some in the community shunned us, and one prospective board member refused to join because he believe the board was wrong to fire an “innocent” man…

The point being that I as his most vocal defender was wrong,as was every person who believed him. The fact that people quit after Chris Hardwick, does not mean they are right. In fact, I’d say they are more likely to be wrong.

Frankly in the current climate, it is probably easier for AMC to fire Chris than to keep him. All AMC has to do is say is that having Chris continue would be bad for ratings and a distraction.

3060

No, he fought it and had people come out in his defense. It was only after more allegations came out that, that the pressure became too much and he resigned.

So yeah, on the Democrat side, we are the party of believing the women and the GOP is the party of statutory rape (at least in Alabama).

3061

Repeating: None of the people you’re shouting at voted for Ellison, and none of them have said they believe Ellison. You’re just engaging in a kind of guilt by association, where because some people on the left over there voted for Ellison despite the accusation, then some people on the left over here must be hypocrites.

3062

Well, I suppose one may as well drop the latest Asia Argento shitshow in here.

3063

Oh dear lord. How hard is it for an adult, any adult, to keep their hands of underage people? Drool at the young actors if you must but keep hands off.

3064

I particularly enjoyed Rose McGowan’s contribution to the Asia Argento allegations yesterday when she said on twitter “None of us know the truth of the situation and I’m sure more will be revealed. Be gentle.”. Clearly she felt that opponents of MeToo didn’t quite have enough ammunition

3065

Hypocrisy is a hell of a drug.

3066

And shit like this will discredit what could have been/ could be a movement for good.

:eyes rolling

3067

Maybe we can focus on sexual misconduct from both men and women and make it better for everyone instead of focusing on the hypocrisy. It’s not like breaking the law is ok when anyone does it, despite what trump’s supporters seem to think.