Avtar
3169
Because this feeling of “my guy” is related to his position of power/celebrity/persona/whatever and it is what allows him to get special treatment. And it is a similar feeling probably to why these women met with him in the first place. It’s a major major major part of the core of the whole problem, regardless of the specific acts and their “severity”.
Avtar
3170
Well damn! I just finished finally watching The Wire, so that’s a pretty glowing endorsement.
Maybe the word hero isn’t right. Spirit animal?
Starting with Chewed Up, and more profoundly with his FX series, I started to observe a great deal of my life through a world-view he helped shape. Profound things like my daughters’ young sense of humor got filtered through his point of view. What does a great film or author or band mean to people, especially if you’ve grown with them over a large chunk of your life? Surely y’all can understand the concept even if Louis doesn’t do that for you.
Avtar
3172
Nesrie
3173
The fact you like this guy, even idolize him, does not change the vile things he got away with, the purposeful things he continued to get away with and knew was wrong and the public only found out about because of MeToo. If it wasn’t for this movement, you could have your blissful moments, but you get to join the rest of us. You’re certainly not the only one to be horrified by what was done by someone you thought was better than he is. I just submit that your concerns seems wholly about him and not about the women at all. Habitual assaulter, they don’t just stop.
Banzai
3174
Better Things feels real the same way The Wire does, but it’s about the lives of women of all ages instead of the many dysfunctions of urban life. It’s insightful and very funny at times.
Okay, I guess? But I hope it’s clear from my all-day, thousands-of-words on the subject, that that wasn’t what I meant by “my guy.” I just meant that he’s the one whose work I care about.
I don’t know what special treatment he’s getting. I don’t want him to get any.
And while power and celebrity is one side of a coin, I’d say that artistry and substance would be the other. Heck, remember when evangelical leaders started sharing his “everything’s amazing and nobody’s happy” bit?
Maybe the whole not being in jail part? Do you want him in jail? I doubt it.
Hell, yeah, jail! That would be so much easier. I want him to pay the appropriate price. If they pressed charges (preferably the first time it happened) and he went to jail and could come out with justice served and then see what comes after that, it would be a lot less gray-area wishy-washy than this clusterfuck we’re dealing with.
Nesrie
3178
I think you might be replying to Scott, but let me remind you of something that you seem to have forgotten or just conveniently overlooked. He’s admitted it. There’s no gray area here.
Nesrie, I don’t know why you keep dishing this kind of language at me. “Blissful moments.” Quite obnoxious. If you haven’t seen that my primary concern is #metoo first (ie all of us, primarily women) then you’re not reading me accurately. My goal is not to defend him or what he did.
Yes, sorry… quoting two posts at once!
And the gray area I’m referring to is (obviously?) the punishment not the crime.
Nesrie
3180
You are doing, exactly that, whether you are intending it or not. You’re even trying to get him off the boat with Matt Lauer. Why? They did very similar deeds. These professional, rich, white men who got around their crimes by hiding it, and others hiding it for them, and they absolutely forced their unwanted attentions on unsuspecting women and for some reason you think 9 months of not getting everything they want all the time is somehow penance.
And if you don’t like what I am saying now, just imagine what it would be like if someone was talking to you while stroking their dick. Is that better or worse? Just imagine, for one minute, how awful it would for your idol to trap you like that. It’s thoroughly disgusting, and he did that for years. There is zero evidence he has done a single thing to break that aggressive abhorrent behavior he wallowed in for decades… and he has no right, not a single one, to speak for his victims or for any other victim. He’s the assailant.
Putting his crimes into perspective in the interest of finding proportional justice is not the same as defending his crimes. And the simple distinction of laying-hands-upon is enough to distinguish CK from Lauer.
You keep asking me to imagine this happening to me so I’ll indulge you. Here’s what I think I would do in these circumstances, but who really knows?
-If Aziz made a too-aggressive pass at me after a date, I would chalk it up to a bad date and move on. I would tell friends. I would not take it public.
-If Louis pulled it out in front of me and masturbated, I’d try to leave. If he blocked the door, I’d wait it out and then report it to the hotel and the police.
-If Matt Lauer locked me in his office and put his hands on me, I’d tell HR. If nothing happened, I’d tell a reporter.
-If Harvey or Cosby raped me, or even attempted rape, I can no longer imagine the pain and trauma so the thought-exercise ends here.
Reading interviews with his victims, I don’t get the sense that they endured as much suffering as you are implying they did. I shouldn’t under-state it, nor should you over-state it. My hope is that they would have proportional justice done.
RichVR
3182
Where would you put Batali and Franken?
Nesrie
3183
This makes no sense. You think Matt Lauer was worse but you’d go to the police and not CK.
There is no over-stating here. We don’t even know if all his victims came forward in the first place, and we certainly don’t know how personal they would go with their experiences. His victims are being attacked, shamed, second-guessed and tracked down by his fans. We’re only hearing from the ones brave enough to come forward and only what they’re willing to share. And he admitted it.
I am not asking you how you would seek justice or avoid the situation, I am asking you if you would still idolize your hero if he pulled his dick out and forced you to watch him masturbate. Would that dull any of the shine, at all?
I don’t think I know the specifics of Batali but I think it’s similar to Lauer?
Like Louis, Franken is a case where I’d want to argue that, on balance, they do far more good for women than they do harm. But I reluctantly agree that Franken had to go so we can have the moral high ground. If he ran again, I’d probably support him or vote for him if I could.
RichVR
3185
Fair enough. I agree on Franken, BTW.
Are there actual women assaulted by Louis who agree with you that, on balance, he’s good for women? I mean, it seems a reasonable question, right?
Well, the public lewdness and indecency that Louis perpetrated is clearly illegal even though he didn’t touch his victims. Lauer’s crimes (if I even know or remember them accurately) are more aggressive, power-trip, grabby passes in the work-place. Not quite as illegal and much more abuse-of-power in my opinion, if only for the NBC offices vs hotel room setting. Whipping it out from afar vs laying hands upon up close. Thorny debate!
This kind of social media harassment is beyond disgusting and a rampant problem everywhere you look. {mort looks at the White House} I’m not sure how it factors into the whole “what Louis did” problem with which we’re grappling.
This is an amazing question. I can’t begin to answer it. I do know that I love Louis and I don’t mind looking at X-rated things. I’m not gay but I’m not particularly bothered by penises. I have a high tolerance for outrageous behavior. I honestly don’t think I would consider myself a victim in that circumstance even though I would never want to diminish others who did feel victimized. Really amazing question.
Nesrie
3188
It just points out that coming forward today is not without costs. These women are brave and they are exposing themselves and I am not convinced all of them are doing it.
Well I want to thank you for explaining your reaction to an imaginary situation. I question if that is what would happen, or really anyone who hasn’t experienced that would have a hard time saying what they would do, but your expected response explains to me why we’re at such an impasse. It’s not even, like there is a canyon between the atrocities I see and felt with these individuals and the way you see them.
That’s probably why we can’t really understand each other. It’s not just a disagreement on punishment so much as a wholly different reaction to the world we live in.
