I find this argument that nobody ever makes false accusations bewildering. Are you guys living in some paradise where there are no sociopaths? Or you just think women can’t be sociopaths?
Yeah.
Some people are arguing that mob justice on The Internet can be misguided and simultaneously devastating. Others are arguing that complaints of harassment and sexual assault by women have been discounted and ignored for a long time.
Both are right, and I just hope the advocates for each position realize they shouldn’t be fighting against each other.
Well said.
Yes, both “sides” are right (i.e. we all generally agree) but I think common sense tells us that the ‘Harvey’ problem outweighs the witchhunt problem.
It’s like the political correctness backlash… we’re trying to squash racism here, people! Can y’all please get on board and quit nitpicking??
These are the sanest words I’ve seen on the internet in a long time.
I’m assume it’s a serious question. The policy is to guard against bothe false accusations and potential harrasement issue. For a man, Staying alone in a room with an woman is to place yourself in a potentially compromising situation. Especialy if you are ugly and she’s attractive.
If she runs out screaming, it’ll surely be that you have molested her. so if she is carrying a grudge and is out to destroy you, she can do it. Barring CCTV, you’ll have a hard time defending yourself.
I know a friend who have a real life case like this. In the end, she had an attack of conscience and retracted the accusation. But he was so disgusted by how the management judged him without any evidence that he quit the job anyway. His consolation was that she apologised to him in front of the directors, the motive was jealousy.
Ultimately, the only real solution is for there to be significant reform in the justice system and police departments to correct the severe under-reporting and under-punishing of sexual harassment and assault. Presumption of innocence and a fair trial where the jury isn’t influenced by the internet pre-judging the defendant is just as important here as any other crime.
Until that happens, internet vigilantes of various degrees of intelligence are trying to fill a massive hole in justice for victims. It is a blunt tool, sure, but I won’t personally be worried that it’s going too far until I see, say, Matt Damon’s career be ruined over this.
“These words that you wrote that agree with what I just said are the sanest words I’ve seen on the internet in a long time.”
So, basically, your friend told you this happened to him once, and so you’re advocating that it be a serious point of consideration involving all interpersonal work relationships in all situations between men and women.
JenniferLawrenceSarcasticOkay dot gif.
To address this more seriously, I don’t think anyone’s said that false accusations don’t happen. What I think is the broader point is that false accusations appear to be far, far outnumbered by actual incidences. If you believe Enliven’s statistics, it’s 2% of all reported rapes are false accusations. US law enforcement thinks it might be as high as 7%. In any event, in those cases measured by the law enforcement, exoneration happened (obviously–that’s the imperfect measurement of a false accusation.)
And in any event, we’re talking about THIS specific case, where there’s ample evidence that Harvey Weinstein was every bit the sexual predator that his accusers make him out to be.
Strange how you read it. I stated a general guideline. Then showed an instance where I just happened to know a real life case. But if I am reading you correctly, you’re saying I’m doing the opposite.
Hard to have a discourse like this.
Edit: I do find it surprising that more workplaces dont have guidelines like this. It protects both potential victims.
I don’t understand exactly what you’re saying, are you referring to other situations potentially like this, as in “we’ve got another ‘Harvey-level’ incident coming to light with so-and-so”, or do you mean specifically this incident with Harvey.
It’s a really fucked up guideline.
Yes, you did. Which doesn’t mean we ought be be basing general workplace policies on this freakshow Mike Pence worldview of interpersonal gender relationships.
I keep losing track of who’s responding specifically to who or which facet of the topic, so I’m right there in the “ample evidence that Harvey was a predator” camp. I think at least some people are worried though about the “witch hunt” aspect of the rest of the industry outside of this specific case.
Maybe I’m way off there, but I’m not sure we’re always all talking specifically about the same situations.
How is that so when managers/directors/bosses are NOT allowed to bring in young vulnerable women into their rooms alone?
But it’s fine, it just goes to show the toxicity of a politics forum anyway. I’ll happily stick to gaming. Have a good day. =)
By ‘Harvey problem’, I meant men who abuse power for sex at any level. I think the true stories outweigh the false accusations and those victims deserve every ounce of support we can muster.
Right or wrong, I think bemoaning the ‘witchhunt’ issue at a time like this is tone deaf.
So if I don’t want to go on a witchhunt against every single person ever accused of a sex crime then that means I’m on Harvey Weinstein’s side? I have to believe every tweet and every bit of gossip I hear about anyone?
It’s hard for me to keep track of too. I keep saying Weinstein is a rapist and yet I’m supposedly supporting him now?
If in this society being “tone deaf” matters more than what’s right or wrong then I’d prefer to just kill myself.
Yes, that’s exactly what I said.
BTW, how’s the persecution complex working out for you?
Oh dear. I’m at least mitigating that bit of fucked upness by imagining it being sung in a Morrissey voice to sprightly electric guitar.
But here, let me help you.
7%, or even 2% of all reported rapes being false is still too high a number. That’s why shield law are important and why police and prosecutors need to be trained in their importance.
And yes, go ahead and defend Harvey Weinstein although I don’t think you are. How did we get to false accusations within the context of Weinstein?
He’s not, which you would see if you were more concerned with having a discussion and less concerned with scoring points on your crudely-constructed strawman.
See, I didn’t think he was. I thought I was talking specifically about Harvey Weinstein here in the Harvey Weinstein thread. Which is why I found it puzzling that he was saying that he thought Harvey was a bad and guilty man but also noting that we shouldn’t discount the likelihood of false accusations here.