3229

Assault . At Common Law , an intentional act by one person that creates an apprehension in another of an imminent harmful or offensive contact. An assault is carried out by a threat of bodily harm coupled with an apparent, present ability to cause the harm.

There’s no greater threat to women than horny men. Louis CK says so. Men have inflicted so much harm on women. By the way while we’re in here alone, you won’t mind if I whip it out right now and wank while we talk about your career, which I currently hold power over? No just sit right there, my friends are outside.

3230

It’s definitely sexual violence as defined by WHO, which does not actually require physical touching.

The sick thing is some people might try to lessen the offense due to the actual touching which in turn gives sick people an out if they only coerce someone into say taking their clothes off. We’ll be splitting hairs about this stuff for decades and then there is the legal definitions which get even more dicey.

3231

And yeah Cosby is worse. We accept that. There’s beating a kid with a belt and shooting one in the head, one is clearly worse. It doesn’t make the other one good or tolerable.

3232

I feel like it’s kind of trivializing sexual assault to use that term to describe what Louis CK did. I don’t think any of the women involved suggested that they felt threatened by him.

Again, this isn’t to excuse it… merely to differentiate it from the cases from most of the other folks in this thread, where men were actually commiting acts of violence against women.

And just to be clear… if he actually committed sexual assault, that would cross into the realm of a CRIMINAL offense, which it did not… and I don’t believe anyone has suggested that it should.

3233

It’s creepy as hell and deserving of shaming, shunning, etc. Calling it “assault” gives it the same label as forcible rape, though. And it’s not accurate, unless the women thought the encounters were going to escalate quite considerably.

I’m not at all saying his conduct was OK, or that it’s a “say you’re sorry and take a few months off” deal. It’s not. But I don’t like lumping all the bad things men do into the same words, as I don’t think they all merit the same response.

3234

So a fifty year old man tells a 18 year old girl she has to strip down or lose her job, what is that? He never touches her, her career is on the line, and she’s scared. What do you call that? And to be clear, it’s not just her job or her livelihood it’s the ability to work in that field for the rest of her life.

3235

I don’t know what the term is, honestly. Felony sexual misconduct? It’s clearly a non-consensual sex crime. If she reasonably thought it was leading to a rape, then it’s probably ‘assault.’

I don’t think attention to accurate language means you’re diminishing the crime or the proper response. That’s not the intention. Some people seem to think it’s meant that way, though. Saying CK didn’t commit an assault or a rape does not excuse or diminish what he actually did.

3236

It’s call sexual violence by WHO. And the reason they use the word violence is it is a violent act. Sexual assault is a form of sexual violence.

3237

Did any of the women involved in Louis CK report any kind of violent fears? I was not aware of any of the victims in that case making such claims.

3238

OK. I just popped to the CDC page on this, and they seem to have similar definitions of “sexual violence.”. They include everything from forcible rape to unwanted exposure to pornography in that label.

Pointing out that these are all wrong behaviors along a spectrum seems useful. But I still bridle at the idea that that gang rape and walking by a co-worker’s computer with a pornhub tab open should be described with the same language. Yet it seems important to others that they all be lumped together. I clearly don’t understand something here.

3239

Good thing we have judges and juries to mete out appropriate punishments!

3240

There are differences, but we need to be clear here; this is a violent act. This was a violent act. These are not minor instances and there is a reason why all these things are under the umbrella of sexual violence. And that’s important. Because as soon as someone thinks of these horrific acts as something less than violence, then we get into these weird not excusing but sort of, kind of, maybe not so bad discussions. Revenge Porn, sexual violence. Forcing someone so strip to take pictures or just watch, sexual violence. Rubbing against someone fully clothed in a elevator, sexual violence. That actual act of sex need not happen for that to apply. The act of touching need not happen.

3241

Again, did any of the women involved with Louis CK report that they felt threatened, or that violence was committed against them?

3242

It’s not the act of being threatened, physically threatened that makes this a violent act. That is simply not a requirement. Coercion can be enough.

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3243

Timex is talking about the common-law definition of assault, which requires a threat of physical harm. Nesrie is talking about sexual violence, which does not (per WHO and the CDC).

So, revenge porn and CK’s own creepiness would fit into the latter categories, but likely not the former.

3244

Did any of the women report that they felt threatened or that violence had been committed against them?

I’m actually just talking about what the women who were actually involved said.

I was unaware that they had suggested that anything he did rose to the level of sexual violence.

3245

It was not consensual, against their will, and that absolutely fits. Multiple women were forced, and does not require physical force or threats of physical acts to fit the sexual violence definition.

3246

I’m not advocating it’s OK after 9 months, I’m really curious what the length of time would be OK and why on earth wasn’t this prosecuted with so many witnesses & him admitting guilt? Then we’d have a sentence.

But in the absence of that, there does not seem to be consensus of what the sentence should be since there is no jail time only social justice and everyone seems to have a different opinion of what that should be.

For you, it seems like 5 years is enough? Can you point me to a crime that would be prosecuted and have that length of time and in your mind is equivalent?

3247

Not that I saw in the initial article. They said it felt wrong. They said they were offended. The word threatened was not used.

So, you win I guess.

3248

One of the victims, Abby Scachner, posted this on Facebook 10 months ago.

I’ve been basing a good deal of my “Louis is trying to make it right” on her thoughts. But there are numerous other women and not all of them have written publicly about forgiveness like this. So we know he has reached out personally to at least some of the women he victimized. He doesn’t owe me an apology so I don’t judge the absence of an apology in his statement of remorse. I think it’s a pretty thorough statement of regret but as we’ve seen in the apology thread, those things get picked apart almost no matter what you say. It’s okay with me if some of this stuff, including the apologies, stays at the personal level. Heck, maybe this led to his divorce.

Walla, I don’t know the exact timeline, but I believe these lewd acts date back to the early 2000s before he was a household name. So my view of the situation is that he’d stopped doing this long ago. His subsequent bad behavior was trying to dodge and evade the rumors which is understandable but just delays the inevitable and makes you look worse.

And, yeah, it’s probably because I’m a big fan of his, but I generally don’t agree with the various “serial abusers never stop” line of thinking. I think this grotesque behavior is now in the past and it’s crazy to imagine him doing it again given everything that’s at stake both personally and professionally. If I’m proven wrong and it happens again, I will lead the torch and pitchfork mob and burn my all bluray sets of Louie.