3249

Well… does anyone here believe that when CK whipped out his dick and started masturbating that he actually asked these women if it was okay, that he wanted to get their permission to participate in his sexual gratification?

I don’t actually know what is wrong with him, but I suspect 9 months of therapy, if he got any at all, would be pretty on the light side.

3250

7 years sounds about right to me.

3251

I don’t see why these women would stay in his office, or hotel room, or wherever each incident went down, unless they felt threatened on some level, whether they specifically say it or not. They didn’t want to be there and yet didn’t leave. Why did they stay unless they felt threatened? Be it a physical threat, career threat, etc. It’s sickening behavior, was specifically targeted towards women, and was obviously sexually motivated. He took advantage of women by using his power/fame to coerce them into these situations. As far as we know, he didn’t actually physically rape anyone but was that solely due to a lack of opportunity? Was he working up to that? Who knows? He clearly had no problem forcing women to be his sexual playthings for years until finally being outed.

3252

He wrote this in his public response to the allegations:

At the time, I said to myself that what I did was O.K. because I never showed a woman my dick without asking first, which is also true. But what I learned later in life, too late, is that when you have power over another person, asking them to look at your dick isn’t a question. It’s a predicament.

So, he asked the question to feel okay with what he was about to do but I don’t believe their answer mattered.

I also think he should have used a stronger word than predicament.

3253

This guy talks for a living write. He is basically really good with words.

How do you think he asked?

Hey, glad you’re fan, can you sit there for a minute while i pull out my cock and masturbate. it’s just this thing I do. Or hey I’d be happy to help you in the industry, can you watch me masturbate first?

How do you think he approached this? Why couldn’t he just go get a one night stand like all the other people out there that don’t want long term relationships.

I know you think he is honest and all that, but I am skeptical of what someone who does this actually says. Just picture in your mind how this conversation would happen.And isn’t he known for details so… why so vague here?

3254

Sometimes I don’t know who you’re arguing with! I just said I don’t believe the answer mattered so the question was a bullshit personal rationalization, not a genuine effort to touch base with what the women wanted or didn’t want. I assume their shock or repulsion was part of the sexual thrill. Yuck!

3255

Have you really never encountered a situation where you were uncomfortable, but didn’t extricate yourself from the situation because you couldn’t figure out how to do so in a way that didn’t escalate it and made things even more awkward?

I have. I wouldn’t describe myself as feeling threatened in those cases.

There are times when we put up with things which offend us, without being threatened into doing so.

3256

This is true! But it’s also a guy’s perspective on things. Sounds like maybe the world is a little different for women.

3257

Yeah… let me count the times I feared some kind of sexual violence directed at me. None. Not once.

That’s going to lead to different perceptions.

3258

Again, if any of them actually said they felt threatened, i wouldn’t argue with it.

But they didn’t say that. That’s just something that folks here are imagining they felt.

3259

I am questioning whether he really asked. He said he did but… mmmm, did he really.

If your’e put in a sexual situation you don’t want, didn’t ask for and / or didn’t expect, it’s often going to feel threatening, more often than not.

3260

I think he’s questioning that now, too. Perhaps not in the same way you are – you seem to think he may be lying about having said anything at all. He seems to be saying, “I thought I was asking a question, but they might not have felt they could say ‘no’ without repercussions.”

Either way, the victims here weren’t truly asked if they were OK. There’s no version of this story in which consent was obtained. But your version paints him as unrepentant, a liar just saying what he needs to say.

Maybe. I have no idea, really.

3261

I’m not a fan of Louis C.K. so it is pretty easy for me to say 9 months is too short of time to make a comeback, nor was his apology sufficient. But I do think instructive for us to have a debate about what is the proper punishment. I’d suggest we take a look at our favorite artist who’s been involved in the #Metoo movement and propose what we think is an appropriate for him (or her in the case of Asia).

For me the one person, I was most bummed about was Charlie Rose. One of my top bucket list items was to do something important enough to be interviewed by Charlie. Charlie’s offenses were similar to Louis, he had more of them but they weren’t quite as bad Louis, but he did have more, but his much older. At age 76, Charlie Rose career is likely over and I’m ok with that. If he was Louis age, I’d think 2 years in therapy, a full and public apology, and private apologies to all he has hurt would be in order. Finally, some significant contributions in time and money to various groups aiding woman victims of violence.

3262

I think he said the words but didn’t really ask, if that makes sense. Saying the words gave him some kind of psychological permission to go forward with it.

But, yes, I take him at his word when he says that was his routine. Plus, I’d think the women would have shouted NO HE DIDN’T if it weren’t true.

3263

Does this qualify?

The women described themselves as being “paralyzed” during the incident and running out of the hotel room after C.K. ejaculated.

If they were ‘paralyzed’, and fled as soon as they could, I’d say they were frightened, wouldn’t you?

3264
  1. I’m not a woman in a situation like that with a rather large man
  2. That’s it…I’ve never really felt intimidated like that in my life due to a power imbalance solely based on size and gender. There’s a dynamic at play in a situation with a woman and a man that I don’t think we can fully understand as men.
3265

That absolutely makes sense.

3266

I don’t think we’ll ever have a hard and fast rule, and we may never even reach consensus. But the MeToo movement is still resulting in allegations, right? Maybe “sometime after Hollywood has cleaned house” would be reasonable.

Either way, I think CK’s situation is even weirder due to the fact that part of his whole shtick is “Look at how big of a piece of shit I am.” That sounds a lot like what we would expect from a sincere apology, but it’s also an intentionally-constructed part of his act.

I predict that he’s going to mount a “real” comeback (e.g., backed by FX or HBO or something) sooner than I’d like, and part of that comeback is going to be a heartfelt, probably hilarious bit on “I whipped it out in front of people I respect, I abused power relationships, I’m a huge piece of shit,” and people are going to eat that up. He’s going to get a ton of positive publicity and make a ton of money, and that doesn’t feel right to me no matter how much time has passed.

3267

Well, I’d eat that up but only if he offered more artfulness and insight than just “I’m a huge piece of shit.” Also, I don’t think any networks will touch him for a while yet.

Maybe he could go on tour with all the women comics he exposed himself to. He opens for them.

3268

I think trying to get laughs for what he did ought to make it perfectly clear that he’s a monster, for those few people who don’t already grasp that. He would be getting paid for what he did.