Enidigm
3349
I just figured out which film painting your icon came from rrmorton.
Yea, @nesrie, i think it’s clear the big dissonance here is that many people just don’t see what he did as being “all that bad”. Like, sure, it was bad. But bad bad? Irrecoverably bad? No! They say.
Which is nutter butter to me. Who the hell surprise wanks off in front of a woman, other than the lowest form of creeper? I would never trust Louis C K again as a business owner nor on a personal level, nor want to associate myself with him in any way. That other people still do shows how little they empathize with or really understand the victims.
Or, perhaps more frighteningly, understand his perspective and behavior and empathize with that more than they might admit. I’ll never forget (cause it was just so weird), hell, i think i mentioned it here before, some part of a Candid Camera skit i saw on the internet like 10 years ago where some hot bikini babe tried to get rando guys to buy her hot clothes, bending over and acting hot the whole time, and some guy started wanking off as soon as she left the dressing room. WTF!!! That’s nucking futs. WTF is wrong with guys.
One dog goes one way, the other dog goes the other way, and this guy’s sayin’, "Whadda ya want from me?’
:D
I hear ya, but doesn’t much of what you write contradict core components of our entire justice system or religions that preach the virtue of forgiveness?
Enidigm
3351
The whole conversation is about who gets to decide when someone is forgiven, and how problematic it is when it’s the perpetrator that has that power.
And no, don’t bring the knife back. Why can’t you settle down with a nice girl?
I guess you could see it as the perpetrator having power in the decision. Or you could look at it as him not knowing the rules and trying to figure them out.
I said it the other day, but personally, I think he should have given it 9-10 more weeks (minimum) just so we could nudge the unit of measurement from months to a year. Sure it’s arbitrary, but that’s my feeling.
Oghier
3353
The general public has no duty to enact specific guidelines as you imagine. They fact that they have not – cannot – does not make this somehow unfair to CK. He can’t satisfy the requirement. So what? Are we obligated to give him a path to redemption? Why?
He fucked up. People react to that as individuals, not as lawmakers charged with codifying those reactions. Pointing out that it’s difficult for an individual to pick a specific timeframe is completely meaningless.
Enidigm
3354
If he’s so insightful though, he should have had the knowledge that he should ask permission before going in public again, rather than surprising an audience that did not come to see him.
That he didn’t puts into question both his judgement and sincerity; or worse, makes it seem that he’s knowingly doing bad things and can’t stop himself.
Which, if he’s transgressing ordinary mundane foibles (i didn’t make the bed) is one thing. Masturbating in front of women is another.
Yeah, I really dunno. No matter what choice he made, this debate would have erupted. I do wonder how much he’s paying attention to it and considering how to proceed.
LMN8R
3356
No debate would have erupted if he just…
…didn’t do anything. And went away. Forever.
Almost like when you whip out your dick in front of a woman in a closed room and start wanking it.
Timex
3358
You’re not obligated to do anything, but if that’s the boat you’re in… then there’s no reasonable requirement for him to give a crap about what you think. He’s lost to you. He can never make you happy, so it’s not really worth him even trying.
So it just comes down to him doing what he feels is right, and that’s really all he can do.
It’s not meaningless at all, in that it forces you to actually crystallize your opinion in a coherent way. If the reality is that you are never going to forgive him, no matter what he does, so be it. But be honest about it. Don’t pretend like there’s some hurdle he can somehow get over to earn that forgiveness… because there isn’t one.
Nesrie
3359
Forgiving someone is completely detached from saying they should have access to prey again. You’re confusing forgiveness with something else. That’s a predator. There is no reason to believe he has changed. If he had that kind of control some think he has, he wouldn’t have done it in the first place. There is something wrong with that man. His behavior is not normal and is not acceptable.
Access to prey? Should he be relocated to Man Island?
We’ve established that you feel his sins are irredeemable and you think he will do them again and again. We’ve also established that others don’t agree with you there. I can’t understand why you think that way. Plenty of people turn their lives around. It’s so easy for me to imagine.
Seems like you’re stuck in one rut of the conversation and unwilling to move out of it, to accept or acknowledge other facets of the issue. Makes for a frustrating non-discussion! But that’s okay.
Timex
3361
Clearly, the only acceptable punishment for any crime (or in this case, things which aren’t even crimes), is capital punishment.
Not only the customers, but the other performers, too. I caught a little bit of a segment on the news the other morning about how some of the other performers were upset that they shared the stage with someone they didn’t want to without any warning.
It’s already been mentioned, but when Person A is put into an uncomfortable situation by Person B, it’s kind of fucked up to rally behind Person B and suggest that Person A should just change what they’re doing and leave the room/go somewhere else/ask for a refund/whatever.
Nesrie
3363
Can’t establish something that’s not true, so clearly you’ve not established anything. This man is not interested in forgiveness and neither are the people who keep asking people to rehabilitate him. He wants a comeback. Forgiveness does not mean business as usual.
“Clearly, the only acceptable punishment for any crime (or in this case, things which aren’t even crimes), is capital punishment”
Crucifixion- it’s a doddle!
I can’t quite understand your meaning here, but I do know it reads like an attack. And a mis-characterization of my intended meaning in the section of my post you quoted. You know I’m not Louis CK, right? And you know I’m not defending what he did?
Time and again, I use the word “we” in an effort to locate common ground and I see the word “you” in response. I’ve tried pretty hard to point out how we agree on so, so much of this discussion. I trust you’ve seen that but I wouldn’t know it from your replies.
I don’t mean to make it personal. Sometimes I think people see these forum threads as being primarily about verbal combat but I’m just over here trying for a discussion amongst friends. I value your perspective a great deal and would value it more if you didn’t stay in your narrow lane.
I guess it boils down to righteous fury in the face of injustice vs. polite, level-headed debate. Both have their place. And I’m a big boy; I can take it. :)
Nesrie
3367
You have not established anything about what I think is irredeemable. Whether you use the word we or you or her, or my name… this isn’t about forgiveness. And you absolutely made it personal by trying to say you know anything about what I believe when it comes to forgiveness and what is redeemable or irredeemable. We’re 9 months after this man was caught. He didn’t come forward on his own, remember. He didn’t step up. He was pushed into the street and pointed at, and then he forced himself onto an audience who had no idea he was going to be there. We don’t even know if five is the actual number. These are just the women who came forward and I believe one wasn’t even comfortable to reveal her name. That’s how bad it is right now. That we can know someone did something, he can admit it, and it’s still not safe for her to come forward.
So let’s stop talking about forgiveness here. Forgiveness does not mean you wake up and get to continue with business as usual. Criminals are forgiven all the time. That does not mean we say well hey, since you’re forgiven we’ll just forget everything.
I think some people say rehabilitation and forgiveness, but they don’t want forgiveness, they want to have forgive AND forget. That’s not something you can force. It’s not really something that should be asked for. Forgiveness is not taken, it’s offered, and the forget part, well maybe wait on that request and don’t ever demand it.
Timex
3368
What must CK do in order to atone for his sins and be allowed to work?
