The Fall of Harvey Weinstein

The market decided that it was okay to commit sexual violence against women for decades. That’s one of the reason MeToo exists. The only reason we even know what this bastard was doing has nothing to do with the market and everything to do with people doing the right thing despite every societal pressure telling them they would be punished, belittled and dismissed for it.

Thank you. This elucidates what I was trying to say but much more eloquently.

He had some major projects, including a Netflix special, canceled… that’s a loss of millions and millions of dollars for him.

Now we’re talking about him working short sets at a small comedy club, for which he basically is unpaid. And folks are saying he can’t do that.

I really enjoyed Louis CK before all this stuff hit. And none of us are saying he can’t do that. But it is just a respectful kind of thing. He doesn’t have to do anything, but what feels right and seems like a good path is what would make this better.

Folks are explicitly saying that. They’re saying that he’s bad, and so he can’t perform at a comedy club. Even though that’s his job.

He’s not entitled to that job. If he wanted an easy path and to stay on his career, maybe he should have thought twice about turning women into sex objects. The man has done nothing, nothing to redeem himself or to fix whatever the hell is wrong with him. He couldn’t handle less than a year of just not having attention.

Well there is a certain permanent loss of audience for him due to his actions. This is not only fair, it is just. Everyone draws their own line, it’s entertainment there is no moral right to make $x doing it.

You’ll note I do not personally say he should never be allowed to perform. Just that his actions post scandal do not justify me personally supporting said comeback.

And if people who are so disgusted by his actions that their protest makes it impossible for him to come back successfully? Well, that’s the market speaking.

If he wants to make a comeback, he needs to earn it. For me he has not yet done so. Which is a shame, because his brand of raw personal comedy could absolutely be a vehicle for amends. So I view his not addressing that through his work an act of supreme cowardice, and one worthy of shunning. Unless and until that changes, I want him off stage.

Sure, I guess everyone’s free to make their own call.
But it seems to me that it’s a dark road to go down to try and say that someone shouldn’t be allowed to do their job. Like, they can’t do ANY job? Or, as I suggested, just really crappy jobs?

In this case, he’s basically doing a job and not even being paid for it… and yet folks are still upset and think that his doing this is some great offense to the spirit of justice.

At some point, this is just advocation for capital punishment. Folks just want him to be literally dead.

Oh good, we’re back on this carousel!

Maybe triggercut can crowdsource us the proper level of mortification of the flesh and/or time in the stocks for Louis to be allowed to tell jokes again.

Yeah losing your stage privileges is now the equivalence of death. No wonder his supporters are so upset.

He’s not been prosecuted of any crime and so it’s just and right that he should keep his job. Obviously, the man has some issues and should probably spend some time in some kind of therapy but I think the pitchforks are a bit much.

If he was bagging groceries, doing data entry, or doing sales at the local car dealership? I wouldn’t give two shits.

My problem is that his particular job carries with it a certain prestige, and consummate pay. As a nationally famous performer he carries a level of pay, influence, and even power. Those factors I object to. Not the comedy act. If his career was working basement comedy clubs forever, well, so be it. But this is clearly part of a plan to bring him back to national level acts. So as a stepping stone toward that, I object.

Because he should not be allowed in a position where he can wield influence and prestige until he makes amends for abusing said power. He should not be allowed to have influence and power on anyone until he does so, especially over women. Hell, I’d object to him being a shift manager at the local McDonalds for that reason.

But he can change that, it is within his ability. He has, this far, chosen not to exercise that. Ergo: I oppose his comeback so far.

And let’s not forget, he used that privilege against women trying to get into that industry. The very thing he has today, the thing people are upset about him maybe not having a future in. He became a gatekeeper to either to force them to watch him jack-off or block them from the industry. He’s asking for something he didn’t even give freely to the women he victimized, and suddenly he’s the one that’s not getting justice. The man abused his privilege, flat-out abused it, used his influence as a weapon.

Nobody has a right to be a famous and wealthy performer. There are dozens, probably hundreds, of equally talented people who have never sexually assaulted someone, exposed themselves to them, or anything of the sort. Would they not be more ‘deserving’ of his position?

Entertainers don’t have an interview, they don’t draw a salary from some corp*. They perform at the whim of the audience. The audience can say no at any time. It may not even be a failure of the performer. The audience may just grow bored, find a new act, change, want something different. A great band may have to retire because people stop going to shows.

Louis is owed nothing. To claim he has a right to his job is nothing more than entitled twaddle.

Absolute rubbish. It’s one thing for an audience to shun a performer. It’s a different matter entirely to prevent someone from working period.

Oh, you mean like he did. Yeah…

So what’s the line here? Like, who exactly is deciding how shitty a job needs to be before he should be allowed to do it in peace? And this presumably goes for every other crime or offense.

So he can’t work an unpaid gig, because it might lead to a job where he gets paid actual money? Doesn’t essentially every job have the potential to eventually rise to some higher level? Like, you suggested working at a car dealership… eventually he could rise up, own his own dealership, get rich!

The reality is, folks have a right to work. If folks don’t like his act, they can just not watch it. But trying to say that society should prevent people from working is messed up.

Ultimately, I suspect it’s moot, because I suspect there isn’t that big an overlap between folks who are advocating for this kind of treatment, and folks who frequent comedy clubs.

Yeah, it requires that you be entertaining.

I’m doin no such thing.

Go flip burgers, who gives a fuck. Work in a phone bank. Hell, work in an actual bank. There’s hundreds of jobs out there. Go do them.

Oh, they don’t have the pay level and prestige of national comedy act? Tough shit, maybe don’t whack off in front of female coworkers and act as gatekeeper.

His job in specific is a privelaged one. Don’t like it? Don’t play the game. Go work in an office for a fraction of what he made. Reversals like this are the nature of playing the fickle market for a high prestige job such as his. He already made millions. If he never makes another dime in comedy? Boo fucking hoo.

I am not saying any such thing! I am saying, personally, I will not support his comeback. Nothing more, nothing less.

No one is saying that society should prevent him from working in comedy. No one is asking for a law to that effect, or a police force to enforce it. Mostly people seem to think he ought to be too ashamed to even try, and that others ought to be too ashamed to enable him.

As for the efficacy of voting with your entertainment dollars, it’s true that in a world of perfect markets, people declining to pay money for his act would result in him not having a venue or vehicle to perform. But entertainment markets are not perfect! Some other misogynist white man will always be willing to fund him or give him a venue or vehicle, because that’s how people are, so I can’t make him fuck off with my own entertainment spending choices. What’s left, then, is shaming him every time he gets up on a stage, and encouraging others to do the same, until he decides of his own accord to stop. Then he can go pump gas or sweep floors, as lots of other far better people do.