The Fall of Harvey Weinstein


#4084

Maybe because he’s a great actor? I mean he’s really good at pretending to be lots of things for some reason.

Neeson’s thing seems morally different to me. First, he volunteered it, rather than being caught at it. Since he could effectively never have been caught (it was entirely in his head), why would he volunteer it if not to make a confession and expression of remorse about it? He clearly feels / felt guilt about how he was and felt some compulsion to come clean about it. I’m pretty sure we’re supposed to have some reaction beyond revulsion at the original impulse.

Second, he isn’t denying or minimizing or otherwise trying to mitigate it. He’s owned it, for good or ill.


#4085

Yes, a great actor who is most often (as of late) cast in this role of Vengeance incarnate. Seems like he can tap into something essential to his being. Like actors do!


#4086

As the great Olivier once said to Dustin Hoffman: Why don’t you just try acting?


#4087

That’s my take on it, not that it counts for much.


#4088

I don’t even try to understand or ascribe motivation for things like this anymore. He may be haunted by it. He may also realize that it is a story that makes him look deep and like a “changed man” admitting his past flaws, which a lot of people love to see.

I don’t think it is possible to know.


#4089

On the other hand, Noah said he “understands” why Neeson would deny that he’s “racist,” but wanted to stress that what he said is “racist.”

“That is racism that you have,” Noah told Neeson. “The fact that you think you can just go out and kill a black man, that you’re going to kill any black man for what a black man might have done, is a form of racism. Because you’re going, the whole race should be condemned.”

Since a lot of people are “afraid to admit that they ever had a racist thought” out of fear of being labeled “racist forever” by society, Noah said he worries there is “no value in atoning.”


#4090

I think Noah raises a very good point, but is maybe slightly off. I don’t think it means there is no value in atoning. I think it means there is incredible risk to the individual in ever talking about the subject (other than basically saying “racisn is bad”) if they are white (or whichever race can be accused of racism under given circumstance).


#4091

That’s what Noah was saying. He’s saying if people wont ever forgive any racism ever, then there is no value in atoning for it. Not that he agrees with that stance. He says it because Neeson keeps saying he wasn’t racist, when he most obviously was. Noah postulates that Neeson says that because being racist at any point isn’t “allowed” or whatever.

Easier to just watch it. Noah’s position is pretty clear imo.


#4092

I think you’re right as to his meaning. I just took minor issue with the notion that there is no “value” in atoning. There is value. It may not be monetary. It may be private to the individual. But there is definitely value.

The risk is in ever making it public, or discussing racism with others.

But you’re right, and I see that is what Noah is really saying. I think it is a good point.


#4093

I think his point was along the lines of: “If someone comes out and tries to atone and you tar them as racist forever, then no one will ever do it and would be stupid to do it. We don’t really want that, it’s better to have that discussion.”


#4094

True, but you also admit it was racist. Neeson is having a hard time actually admitting it. I would still not encourage the backlash against him, but it’s pretty difficult to atone for something when you can’t admit what it was in the first place. Trevor is at least very clear on what that was. Also people are so caught up in thinking that the only thing worse than being racist is being labeled racist that they miss the point entirely, no the worst thing is not being racist or being labeled racist, it’s being the target of racism. That’s worst thing in this.


#4095

I think the value in atonement has nothing to do with how other people react to it. Atonement is not about getting other peoples’ forgiveness; it’s about coming to grips with your own sins. You should acknowledge your failings even if no one will ever forgive you for them.


#4096

It’s pretty challenging to get atonement if you can’t admit, even to yourself, what you have done. The only reason we know he is struggling with that is he voiced it in public.


#4097

Yes, I agree. It’s not clear to me that Neesom can’t admit to himself in full what he has done. It is clear he’s struggling to admit it to everyone else.


#4098

He’s convinced he would have reacted the same way if it was a white guy, except then he lists off nationality and religious groups like it’s the same thing. I am taking him at his word. He doesn’t believe that trying to hunt down random black men for a week was a racist thing to say or do. See how often he uses the word racist.


#4099

Well, in his part of the world there was a time not to long ago when religion probably would have been the same thing. The Catholics and Protestants killed each other there for no other reason than religion.


#4100

The point is, he wasn’t about to kill someone just because their skin was white. He seemed to want to narrow it down more than that by mentioning not just religion but nationalities.


#4101

No, but had he been told it was a catholic/protestant he would have reacted the same. I know someone has brought that up before and in Northern Ireland that would be true. I imagine there are people in Israel/Palestine who feel the same way. Hate is a terrible thing.


#4102

I completely agree. Like I said before, if it was not racist, he wouldn’t have been hunting down black men. He would have just been hunting down men.


#4103

A great point that bears repeating.