1842

I agree, and I think it goes farther. It’s not just the specific people young men look up to, it’s the way these men shape our culture. Weinstein was incredibly powerful. How much of an impact did he and the many others like him have on the content of Hollywood movies?

But I still wonder how long it takes for this to translate down to women who don’t work for Mario Batali, but the head ‘chef’ at the local Applebees.

1843

I think it’s having an impact right now. The conversations about work from a number of men range from worry about their behavior to anger about the whole thing. Now does that mean we cleaned house… no, but the message is pretty clear… It’s not going to be swept under the rug. (still suck at swyping from a phone).

Heck I’ve received three emails from Message Envy trying to convince me they don’t want their customers raped and are doing something… Those are franchises. The incident I believe was in one location, and it’s not here.

1844

Looking at commonalities here, the food industry, particularly prestigious restaurants, seem to have a very similar labor market to entertainment: lots of young talent competing for relatively few positions at the top, and the producers (read: exec. chefs) having enormous sway within their productions. Also, I think both these industries have frequent blurring of personal / professional times and spaces, as you’re often working at odd hours, or in very tight quarters.

1845

I agree. Conversations in both my work and personal circles related to this whole thing have involved a lot of introspection. There’s an understanding that it’s not just the big things that hit the news, but also the smaller interactions on a day to day basis. Folks are trying to use this as a motivator to learn how to be better people. Learning to recognize our own implicit biases, etc…

1846

Yeah and those who aren’t, or just rage online about it, I consider those people problem people. I won’t ever be stuck alone in a dark office with anyone like that.

1847

Totally agree. The ones who are asking, seriously, how they’ll have fun at office parties now, or complaining that this kills innocent office romance are just garbage. Straight up garbage people.

1848

“The New Yorker recently learned that Ryan Lizza engaged in what we believe was improper sexual conduct. We have reviewed the matter and, as a result, have severed ties with Lizza,” a spokesperson for the magazine said. “Due to a request for privacy, we are not commenting further.”

Lizza is perhaps best known for inadvertently ending the short-lived White House career of Anthony Scaramucci. When the notoriously chatty then-White House comms director called up Lizza in July 2017, he went on an unhinged rant against Trump administration colleagues—calling Reince Priebus a “fucking paranoid schizophrenic” and derisively referring to Steve Bannon’s media-hungry ways as “trying to suck [his] own cock.”

Despite Scaramucci’s unspoken assumption the chat was off-record, it was not. He was fired ten days into the White House gig.

1849

The Lizza story didn’t really fit here, as the doesn’t seem to be any allegation that he molested anyone.

Apparently he was fired because he dated someone.

1850

Eh, not really. This is just another example of how

I will now cite THEORETICAL PROBLEMS that may POSSIBLY happen as a result of this dastardly, ill-advised policy!

is very very bad compared to

Here is my story. {X} happened to me.

Any random jackhole can theorize a bunch of bullshit. It is an enormous waste of everyone’s time.

If you learn anything from online discussion, learn this: fuck theories, whether they are yours or someone else’s. Tell us what actually happened to you, personally. Those are stories only you can tell, and they have power.

1851

I agree, it seems to be an odd situation. But I didn’t really know where else to put it and this thread seems like a catch-all for the movement.

1852

No. Mezno is right. If a man’s response to a woman getting raped is well I guess I can’t get some at the office anymore… he’s a pig. Piece of garbage. That is human that is not capable of being a decent human. He fits right in there with the Nazis that had his girlfriend tell him she was raped, and his response was to laugh. Garbage.

1853

I read it as “response to strict office holiday party rules / no dating rules at work”, not “response to being told someone was raped”.

Anyway I hate, hate, hate rule theorizers. Every instance of this I’ve ever seen has been total bullshit. Either share your personal story of how the rules were a problem for you, or GTFO.

1854

You want me to share my rape stories or shut the hell up… really? You want to read that and re-evaluate what you’re demanding.

1855

I’m not talking to you, I’m talking to the “strict office party rules” theorizers aka garbage people. Sorry if that wasn’t clear.

1856

Oh you mean the fear of suddenly having so many rules at work you can’t be human anymore all due to people telling everyone you can’t rape, sexually assault or sexually harass women, and men, at work… for reals this time?

I haven’t seen any new rules. I just assume my company, if they weren’t already, will actual enforce the rules we already have. I spent 2 hours this month going through our policy, and reviewing court cases behind those policies as a requirement for my position. I assume these were the same kind of required training that Google kid was complaining about.

1857

Yes, exactly. Rule theorization is horseshit:

I will now cite THEORETICAL PROBLEMS that may POSSIBLY happen as a result of this dastardly, ill-advised policy!

1858

Sorry, I completely misread your response then. My apologies. We have had some… interesting views in here previously.

1859

I would say 90% of online arguments that are bullshit fall into the “rule theorization” category.

This is why people sharing their personal stories of things that actually happened to them are so powerful. They’re real, first of all. That is what most of the great topics here on qt3 are.

If you want to drag a shitty topic into the not-shitty category, demand that people share actual, real stories that happened to them, versus BS talking points, random theorization, or citing some article on the web, etcetera.

1860

I agree. I am impressed by these women. I don’t know that I would share these kind of stories with my family, my sisters who I am close with let alone the world like they do. And despite the theories of false claims, it makes me sick just thinking about what life would be like after making a claim like that… too much ugly to do it for a false reason.

1861

The accusation seems to have been made by the woman he dated:

“In no way did Mr. Lizza’s misconduct constitute a ‘respectful relationship’ as he has now tried to characterize it,” Wigdor LLP, the law firm representing Lizza’s accuser, said in a response. “Our client reported Mr. Lizza’s actions to ensure that he would be held accountable and in the hope that by coming forward she would help other potential victims.”

It sounds like there’s a bit more to it than someone being fired because he dated a colleague.