Yeah… for Liberals, this year has to be more than understanding #metoo, which is easy. There has to be a #himtoo aspect, as well. Clinton is probably a much worse person than most of us have wanted to believe.
It wasn’t a single accuser with him, either. But there was so much politically oriented, clearly false bullshit thrown at the Clintons, it was easy to assume that those women’s stories were part of it. I can’t be the only person who has recently reexamined that assumption and found it unjustified.
To me though, this is why the Kennedy question has become interesting, and further emphasizes the importance of #metoo. You can draw a line between the presidencies of Kennedy, Clinton and Trump and see the evolution of values that got us from there to here.
I have absolutely turned a corner on how I feel about Bill Clinton. At the time there were so many ridiculous allegations going around about the Clintons as murderers, drug runners, what have you - that the women who came out to accuse him just seemed like more crazy accusations dredged up to make him look bad. But I think those women should get their day, should be heard.
And I think it’s pretty likely that a Kennedy or Clinton couldn’t be president these days. We’ve all changed how we look at these things, for the better. They may have been good for the country, but like Franken, it may be too high a price for the rest of us to pay.
Edit: I mean a choice between “gross but competent” and “blatantly evil” was exactly what was on the menu in 1960, right? Even if folks didn’t know it at the time.
I just think it’s important to know that an affair at work is not the same thing. People having affairs at work does not automagically put it into the MeToo category. I can’t remember if it was here or elsewhere but that guy who had a night with someone where she said no three times, and then left crying… how did his brain short circuit to not remembering it like she did. The way he, his POV, his words, made that scenario sound was pretty awful.
Those are his memories though. I imagine her’s is worse. He posted that making it seem like it would come off better than what she would say. What he said was awful! That’s not what sex should be like. If he thinks that it is, that’s a problem. Like what he described is not normal.
I understand this can be hard for young men especially, who watch fantasy in movies, television, and games, but the turning a no into a yes is… well I am guessing both of them decided that experience sucked. And her point of view is probably much worse. And since we don’t see a line behind him, maybe he learned that but at what cost There were so many red flags just in his summary of the scenario. I hope actually sees that.
Yep. And this reminds me of the movie that, for me, best symbolizes how much our culture has changed in my lifetime: Sixteen Candles.
A lighthearted, John Hughes romantic comedy, right? Except for the scene where the jock character wants the nerd (Anthony Michael Hall) to do him a favor. The nerd’s reward for this is access to the jock’s drunk, unconscious girlfriend. The implication is clearly, “Do this for me, and you can fool around with my girlfriend.”
I saw this movie a few years ago, for the first time since the 1980’s. I didn’t even remember that scene, and I can’t believe how fucked up that is.
Young women fall into that trap a bit as well. “If you cared enough, you wouldn’t take no for an answer…” kind of things, though almost never to the point of rapey stuff.
I’ve never heard of that. If you’re talking about a 13 year old girl reading Twilight, maybe. But when she actually gets to real life sex, I doubt many women are sitting there thinking if I say no enough times he’ll prove to me how much he really wants me by raping me.Those scenes were designed for boys, not girls. And since a number of people behind these movies are men in the MeToo movie, it’s fairly assured those have never been the view point of women.
I think that comes from movies/ TV, too… the whole notion of ‘good girls have to say no, but they really mean yes.’ Of course, those are movies/ TV made by men. Which brings me back to the whole notion of wondering just how much influential, evil shitbags like Weinstein have effected our culture over their lifetimes.
It doesn’t, but I don’t think most women believe it or think it. I believe some pre-teens do, but the ones holding onto these scenarios seem to be men. It’s not something I think most women internalize. Just look at MeToo and all the different scenarios and in some cases the confusion from guys. I mean I don’t really believe that we have to scrub our media to fit norms and ideals, but these men should be intuitive enough to know that’s not reality, it’s not even close to it. The plots of so many of those are ridiculous but somehow they thought the bed scene was real?
Also… they tried to sexualize Pitch Perfect 3 more? What’s wrong with these guys? That’s primarily a gal movie.
So, that’s 1939. When women in 1939 saw that movie, how did they react? Was that romantic? If it were released today, how would they react? Could it even be released today by a major studio?
I wasn’t around in 1939, but that’s fantasy, just like a typical romance novel. I imagine most women know it’s not real. Romance novels are huge and contain largely what we would consider rape and sexual assault. The key is knowing the difference between reality and fantasy. These guys somehow missed the boat on that.
