Non-shitstain conservatives.

Not at all. What I’d prefer is that the term “conservative” keeps some actual meaning for discussions of political ideology and policies. I’m not a conservative, but one of the fundamental facts of this misbegotten fucked-up Trump era is that I stand on common ground with conservatives when it comes to the most important issue facing our country: curing politics of the cancer known as the Republican party.

Once that’s done, we can go back to arguing about affirmative action, foreign policy, taxes, social services, and even climate change.

If, however, you were just trying to make a crack that conservative = authoritarian, you can just ignore this post.

-Tom

Sadly, climate change ain’t gonna wait around.

I’m a little hurt that you even have to ask :-(

In my view, Tom is advocating trying to weaken the current GOP by pointing out the ideological fissures and gross changes of substantive position that have accompanied the takeover of the GOP by tribalism and a reality denying political-cultist mindset. That can be done without hagiography or lessening the critique of the current GOP by pointing out that 1)the GOP has changed, in many significant ways, including in particular ideology, and 2)elements of the GOP used to have a meaningful ideology that actually had at least some intellectual coherence. even if we as liberals disagree with that ideology.

Basically, pointing out the weaknesses within the GOP that have been papered over by outrage.

In that regard, I think the terminology to use to refer to the older era of GOP conservatism is “Burkean Conservatism” - even though that was rarely dominant in the pre-Nixon GOP, it was a fairly substantial element of the GOP for some decades prior to Nixon.

(Yes, yes, I know please insert “No True Burkean” jokes here.)

I do think as one element of responding to the modern GOP, pointing out that there was a more sane version of conservatism from which the modern GOP has strayed (which does not require endorsing or proselytizing such Burkean Conservatism), is a viable and helpful strategy, along with a full throated denunciation of the many ills of the current GOP. It doesn’t have to be one or the other: a viable counter-strategy is to critique the modern GOP’s many failings and point out that even if folks are not liberals, there are options to being a “Republican/Conservative”.

This gets at a very interesting other issue: how to target a political argument. I understand in the current climate many folks are all about fighting for every inch, scorching every acre of ground, etc. I do understand that fury and desperation. But my personal view is that targeted aggression is FAR more effective than full frontal intensity b/c the full frontal becomes diffused and entangled with the idiocy and emotion of the other side’s arguments. Targeted aggression is, in my view, actually a more aggressive approach, in practice. Narrow attacks that strike very deep into the opposition’s weak points are my preferred approach.

This is why I tend to focus on specific things: the big GOP horror show issues, the extreme malfactors like Trump and McConnell, etc. I honestly don’t give much of a fig about say Kasich or Mattis. I’m not going to praise either, but I’m not going to waste any time attacking them unless there is a specific reason. There are far better targets.

Republicans now love Russia so much, time to go full USSR:

At its meeting in Lusk last weekend, members of the state central committee approved a number of extreme measures, including one apparently designed to punish those whose views do not fall in line with those of the rest of the party — views that majorities of the largest county committees often disagree with — while rejecting measures submitted by the Natrona County GOP that would have protected free speech.

“As a conservative Republican myself, it’s horrifying,” said Joann True, state committeewoman for the Natrona County Republicans. “To watch people go up there and speak against transparency and the ability for people to go up there and express an opinion without repercussions is just absolutely baffling. It’s a little embarrassing to walk out of there and have people read that knowing I’m a member of the central committee.”

According to a copy of the resolutions obtained by the Star-Tribune, the Wyoming Republican Party now reserves the right to dictate the stances of all of its members, arguing that while “the First Amendment applies to all Americans in affairs public, governmental and social, it does not supersede the conduct and expression within the confines of a private organization made up of voluntary constituents.”

Those that don’t fall in line, the resolution reads, could be subject to discipline.

“Any notification from a governing body, including the Wyoming Republican Party, that violating our party’s principals (sic), by-laws, governing documents or rules of order, could subject a fellow Republican to a disciplinary committee review or disciplinary actions runs directly in lock step with Republican Party and Constitutional principles of individual responsibility, good order and the sovereignty of a private organization,” a provision contained in a copy of the resolution obtained by the Star-Tribune reads.

I mean, they are correct that a Constitutional provision that curtails the power of government does not apply to private organizations.

The truly sad thing is how lost the irony of literally adopting rules that says “you are not allowed to express any opinion other than what we tell you to” is on these dim-witted thugs who purport to be an American political party.

Okay, I give up. :)

-Tom

LOL

45

I guess someone has to put him there so they can claim how radical all the currents ones are which his, of course, ridiculous.

They’re not wrong in the sense that Obama did embrace quite a few policies that 70s-80s Republicans supported. We all know the Republican party moved way right over the last few decades. But of course, calling him “conservative” is just meant to get people riled up, because (as we have discussed at length) that term now means something very different than it did back then.

Yeah, if you read the article, it’s basically Swerdlick pointing out all the ways Obama was a centrist who had to deal with an obstructionist opposition party. There’s no real case for calling him a conservative by anybody’s use of the word. Clickbait headlines gonna clickbait, I suppose.

-Tom

Much in the way that many Republicans treated Bill Clinton like a bomb-throwing crazy radical when he ran / was in office, and then later treated Obama as a bomb-throwing crazy radical while lamenting that the Dems didn’t nominate a moderate like Bill Clinton, they will one day pine for the days of moderate Obama.

In what ways was he not conservative? He championed incremental progress, didn’t swing on social issues like gay marriage until well after social culture had, sought a national health care plan that caused as little disruption as possible to the existing system, brought down the deficit, exercised caution in international affairs, is a happily married parent of two with no social improprieties to speak of, and treated the office of the presidency and the institutions and traditions of American democracy with dignity and gravitas. I can think of a single radical thing he did. How does he not align with your definition of conservative. If he’s not a conservative, who is?

The spectrum is conservative and liberal, not conservative and radical. But if you like, I can scroll upthread, find my post about the hypothetical principled conservative, and paste it here. Alternatively, I can make a list of Obama’s liberal policies. Or, heck, just link to the Democratic party platform. Let me know which one works for you.

Wait, did I just get trolled by the Washington Post and @Matt_W on the same day?

-Tom

Obama fits almost all of that description. He’s pro-choice, but not belligerently so. And he weakly supported affirmative actions, or at least signaled that states could consider it for college admissions. But all the rest of it, yeah.

I just think your “principled conservative” is so narrowly defined that there is almost no one who matches that description.

What does this even mean? How can someone be “belligerently” pro-choice?

I love the way people P.S. their posts with “45” to show reverence and appreciation for our Great President.

Hello!

Pro-choice was never a prominent part of Obama’s policy platform. He would answer questions about it if asked, but didn’t campaign on the issue at all. His approach to abortion was to look for common ground.