Which is weird, right? I mean, Christ teaches that people should behave toward each other in a way that I should think would lead to a better world, or at least is supposed to. So by behaving as a good Christian you’re actually delaying the Second Coming?
Pretty good summary. I found the Wikip section on the two categories of evangelicals useful, and also amusing since it pretty much breaks down as the Head (confessionalism) vs the Heart (revivalism) types.
Thrag
3430
Once I saw this guy on a bridge about to jump. I said, “Don’t do it!” He said, “Nobody loves me.” I said, “God loves you. Do you believe in God?”
He said, “Yes.” I said, “Are you a Christian or a Jew?” He said, “A Christian.” I said, “Me, too! Protestant or Catholic?” He said, “Protestant.” I said, “Me, too! What franchise?” He said, “Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Baptist or Southern Baptist?” He said, “Northern Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist or Northern Liberal Baptist?”
He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist.” I said, “Me, too! Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region, or Northern Conservative Baptist Eastern Region?” He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region.” I said, “Me, too!”
Northern Conservative†Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1879, or Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912?" He said, “Northern Conservative Baptist Great Lakes Region Council of 1912.” I said, “Die, heretic!” And I pushed him over.
(credit to Emo Philips)
I grew up Catholic taught the explicit understanding that the immoral new way of life/world around us was a direct and active threat against our values and faith. I’m not saying my dad coined the phrase “war on Christmas” but he was definitely in at the beginning with that one -.-
Then again, my family’s belief set (on both the Guatemalan and Louisianan sides) tracks much more closely with Matt_W’s definition of evangelicalism than what I hear other Catholics described us. But then again, the priest I spent most of my youth years growing up under was also a fire-and-thunder holy roller, and the Church we were a part of went right along with it.
Late to the party;
The Torah (sometimes referred to as the Five Books of Moses or Pentateuch) is but one selection of the “Jewish Bible,” more often referred to as the Tanakh (which is actually a Hebrew acronym). It’s got Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers & Deuteronomy.
Next comes the Nevi’im (or Prophets), and then finally Ketuvim (or Writings).
A way to remember Tanakh:
Ta- Torah
na- Nevi’im
kh- Ketuvim
None of this touches on the Talmud (religious laws and debates about them and their resolutions, basically) & Midrash (essentially ongoing additional and often esoteric debates, because if you put two of us in a room to argue something, you’ll have at least three opinions ;) ).
Timex
3433
What’s nuts is that Falwell is essentially parroting stuff that happened in the Bible… But he’s parroting the bad guys who screwed up.
He’s telling his flock that they should free Barabbas, instead of Jesus. This freaking happens in the Bible.
That should really read “profoundly illiterate interpretation”. Their supposedly literal interpretation ignores basically everything about how language and writing works.
I wish you had credited at the top of the joke, because then I could have read it in Emo Phillips voice.
“Do you believe in god?,” written on the bullet.
Say yes to pull the trigger.
I think Ezra’s breakdown frames at least a segment of Trump support more clearly for me. It’s basically flipping over the chess board because you lost a piece.
Calelari
3437
Christians are folks who try to adhere to the teachings of Jesus Christ.
Evangelicals are folks who love them some racism, misogyny and get-rich-quick pyramid schemes.
rei
3438
Doesn’t the evangelical thing focus on recruiting more uplines (or is it downlines?) into your pyramid scheme?
Peter Wehner has a good piece over in the Atlantic that fits into this subject of Christians supporting Trump.
He’s specifically talking about Franklin Graham and Eric Metaxas and their conversation the other day that implied demonic influence on anyone who opposed the President, but I think a lot of what he says is applicable to the Christians-for-Trump movement at large. Particularly the part where he says they’ve got a double standard, the likes of which Jesus really had a problem with. Also this bit:
And this is exactly what has been happening for quite a while now, including some of the folks in this very thread.
If you want to hear a bit more on the subject, Wehner was also on today’s Bulward Podcast.
Timex
3440
Metaxas sounds like some alias of the devil.
For all intents and purposes, aren’t “privilege” and “white” are synonymous? But specifying “white privilege”, as Scott did, and then using it to dismiss anyone who doesn’t share his liberal beliefs implies that conservatives would be okay with progressive causes that don’t help minorities. It belies a certain mindset in the same way as “white nationalismm”.
But mainly, it’s a reductionist and narrow-minded way to demonize one end of a political spectrum. It would be like if I were a conservative, and I described liberals as people who only want to change things for black people.
And keep in mind, I’m not defending conservative causes. I’m as liberal as many of you. But unless you’re happy to just play the tribalism card and call it a day, it’s important to understand political ideologies when you disagree with them. My problem with Trump’s supporters is that they’re idiots, cowards, and assholes without any meaningful political ideology. My problem with conservatives is that I don’t believe the same things they believe, but I don’t think they have to be idiots, cowards, or morons to embrace conservative principles.
-Tom
If I may “actually” you’re post, which I mostly agree with, I think you’re mischaracterizing the idea of the primacy of Scripture. Literalism is something slightly different (and, in my opinion, untenable and patently ridiculous). The Christian doctrine that evangelicals embrace is that Scripture is the sole source of God’s revelation, which is distinct from other forms of Christianity that also believe God speaks through the clergy and the tradition of the Church. You’d be right to say a lot of (most?) evangelicals take the Bible literally, but that’s a subset of believing in the primacy of Scripture and not necessarily a pre-requisite.
-Tom
Yeah, I think I’m going to bail on this thread at this point. Every time I get into discussions about religion on this forum, I end up regretting it because of mindsets like the one in this post. :(
Someone let me know when we get back to talking about Republicans.
-Tom
CraigM
3444
See here is the thing. I grew up in that environment. I speak from personal knowledge of that culture and mindset. When I said those things? I say that as someone with a deep and fundamental understanding of that culture.
I did not make my post glibly or lightly. That which I described? That was my literal lived experience growing up. I saw first hand the way that evangelicals, in my case specifically Southern Baptist, viewed the world. There is a reason Left Behind became the major best seller it did. There is a reason Michael W Smith’s ‘This is the Time’ was a major musical hit.
So you may be disappointed at the discussion, as it may not match what you experienced. And as your college degree was religious studies in nature I can respect your views.
But I heard the sermons. i attended the churches. I went to the revivals, conferences and seminars. I was a freaking Sunday school teacher for a time even. I know those people, I know their world view. And I promise you what I described is in no way inaccurate for large segments of the evangelical community, especially the more politically active and conservative ones like the Southern Baptists.
Edit: I think you misconstrued what that sentence was. Which is probably my fault for being imprecise with wording. I was simply trying to provide a framework for understanding a certain mindset for someone from the outside. Not that I was and am an outsider to that. I most certainly am not. The Evangelical persecution complex is real. I had a family member this week say that Christianity is the most persecuted religion in the US.
It’s implying that they wouldn’t be roused to protect wealthy minorities but they would protect the primacy of poor whites. They might, say, complain about school busing, or conjure up black “welfare queens” or menacing black parolees. They might talk about vouchers or border “security” or the evils of affirmative action. Being people with an actual philosophy, they might occasionally be right. But they won’t be arguing the right side because they understood some knock-on effect that liberals missed, they will be arguing it because their side preserves white privilege.
I don’t think it’s helpful to pretend that this is the only thing I have said on the subject, or that I have not explained what I meant.
