4898

Some info:

Also, the flip side of this, is that the RNC under the leadership of Michael Steel, absolutely crushed it. Antony, the GOP was brought in out of the wilderness by a black man, who they then cast aside after his strategy won them power.

4899

There are plenty of things to criticize about Obama, including how he squandered the super majority, but about the only thing he could have done to prevent Trump would have been to make all the incomplete Russian intelligence public early, and maybe demand Comey stop the Clinton email thing, which would have probably backfired.

Of course, if Clinton had won, the GOP would have impeached her in 2017, easy.

The thing is that the GOP groupthink doesn’t allow criticism or even questioning.

4900

I mean it can be both of those things.

Because it absolutely was both of those things.

Also as to what @Telefrog said, I know I have criticized Obama’s above the fray handling of things. Now I know why he did it, but I disagree with that choice. By treating the GOP as a good faith governing partner during his term, it did cost a lot. For refusing to push to make public the Trump investigations (again I know why, but it also denied the state of the media in that decision) it cost the election.

4901

Here is how this keeps churning.

It’s the Democrats’ fault because they’re in charge.
It’s the Democrats’ fault because… they’re not in charge.
It’s the Democrats’ fault when Nazis literally parade in our streets because they didn’t stop them.
It’s the Democrats’ fault their deals aren’t good enough, aren’t robust enough, aren’t cheap enough or aren’t expansive enough.

It’s always… the Democrats’ fault.

It’s never the Republicans’ fault because they let Nazis into their ranks, cater to the white supremacist and sit back and watch black lives be murdered, live on video in some cases.

It’s never the Republicans’ fault that they gut taxes and gut policies and destroy regulation only to turn around and say hey look the Democrats didn’t do everything for everyone all the time with all the crumbs they gave us.

The Republican party is the biggest finger-pointing party we’ve ever had, and they’ve been that way for several, several decades.

No. No, the Democrats are not at fault for the Republicans taking power. The Republicans are at fault for voting in shitty, awful people who would literally, literally trade black and brown lives so they can sit on their throne of power and try and blame other people for their failings.

So whose fault is it that Republicans are in power now… the fucking Republicans who have been putting them in power… for decades, that’s who… and no one else.

4902

It’s not about “fault”.

It’s about recognizing mistakes so you don’t make them again.

4903

More likely, it’s about controlling the narrative which the GOP does very well. How do you get everyone to talk about the “mistakes” the Democrats do 100% of the time, even when the GOP is failing miserably.

see above.

This is what they do.

4904

Trump is absolutely the fault of the GOP. And his election a joint effort of deplorables, the shitty clickbait media, etc.

But control what you can. Just because who Trump is lies on them, doesn’t mean introspection about what you could do differently is not in order.

Obama was a good man, probably the best man to hold that office in my lifetime. Quite possibly my parents lifetimes too (they were born during JFK). But that doesn’t mean he was perfect. And it doesn’t mean his temperament and approach were appropriate (read: effective) to the political moment in time. Because it didn’t acknowledge the sea change and division.

Yes, a change driven and owned by Fox and the Tea Party chucklenuts. No denying that.

But at some point if your opposition repeatedly yells ‘over my dead body’ then you need to take them up on the invite. See: Scalia’s seat, and the Comey handling of things. Recognize who and what they are, and treat them accordingly.

And yeah, that means pushing Comey to male public both investigations, not announcing the one on Clinton while being silent on Trump. Being more active and vocal about the Russian influence ops. And calling out the Fox propaganda network.

Now none of that may have worked in the end, but it contrasts to what we know didn’t work. What a decade of evidence proved wouldn’t work. And had Clinton won those criticisms would be just as true, but not as relevant. And had she won you could argue that Obama’s actions were correct to prevent the appearance of tipping the scales.

But at some point the democratic leadership needs to address the reality of who the GOP are, and fight back. We are starting to see that now, albeit late.

4905

This needs to be a campaign poster. Well done.

4906

Obama had one primary job, one huge and incredible undertaking, and that was to pull us out of one the worst economic downturns this country had seen since the Great Depression… he did that.

The fact that both the Democratic party and the Republican party are eager to pile on his shoulder the weight of every single problem that has been building in this country for generations is not an argument against racism.

No he wasn’t perfect, but the first black man elected president sure as hell wasn’t going to fix all the problems that minorities have been seeing build in this country for generations, problems that became so obvious under Trump that everyone else couldn’t just keep it ignoring it anymore.

List out failings, mistakes, wishful thinking of yesteryear’s pasts and trying to decide which mistake is worse while the GOP is literally failing our country is not fighting back. It’s simply nodding and saying hey, yeah that’s me while the GOP is doing the same thing. We wind up with the GOP and the Democrats talking about Democratic failing which is exactly what they want. They’re failing so hard, so hard at governing right now that all they know how to do is shout China every other sentence and the response to that is to look back and criticize Democrats? What the hell do they need a strategy for when they can just watch what is left of the Bernie campaign have at it while the rest line up to punch their own noses?

They don’t have to do much if we do it for them.

Democrats did very well in 2018. We don’t have re-litigate the Obama years, playing right into their hands, to get a viable game plan, and that advice has nothing to do with thinking Obama was even close to perfect.

4907

You can talk about failings of action and strategy from the dems while also shouting from the rooftops that ‘holy fucking shit guys, the GOP is straight evil’. You can talk about how messaging and communications are not being effective while also pointing out the utter asymmetry and hypocrisy of the media, right down to the propaganda of the GOP at Fox as well as the toxic bothsiderism of Fuck the NYT.

I mean we do a pretty good job here pf yelling about those things here. Part of dealing with the hand dealt to you is recognizing what that hand is in the first place, and how you played it in the past.

4908

I am going to take a good long gander at the title of this subject, yep there it is… GOP morally corrupt, and still, still Democrats figure out how to screw themselves over while falling over each to line up to punch themselves in the face… and we wonder how we lose.

4909

While that article does point to some ‘mistakes’ (e.g. Obama didn’t use his appointment powers that well, Obama staffers left for the private sector, etc) it largely attributes the Dem losses under Obama to cyclical factors. I don’t see much in it in the way of recommendations on what Dems should have done / should do instead. So what’s your advice? ‘Win more elections’ probably isn’t prescriptive enough.

Yes, very much this. The GOP response to Dem victories, every time, is to become more evil. Of course that’s always the fault of the Dems. Sigh.

4910

I have heard a couple times from Liberal friends that they actually want a confrontation with Trump / the GOP now. What i think they mean is that they the GOP clearly trying to break the political system, so call them out for Trump’s lies every day and basically shut the government down and refuse to cooperate.

One told me that the Democrats are “wimps” because they won’t just go full out non stop attack on Trump.

4911

I mostly just want democrats to be willing to do anything to beat a foe who already does. Moral high grounds are dumb. It’s total war. Treat it like one.

Thankfully, Trump is painting a useful picture of how to grasp power firmly and debilitate the systems meant to curb autocratic descent. A roadmap to permanent progressive hegemony.

4912

Too right. I borrow a concept from the Scientologists called “Fair Game” - people and entities to which I suspend any ethical, moral and legal obligations in my fight against them. My only barrier is my only personal safety and future. ie I’m not going to get myself arrested or sued.

Why this isn’t being instituted against grassroots GOP supporters and organisations I don’t know. the local GOP appartus, local, municipal, regional infrastructure, its members, their businesses, charities and organisations, all are fair game, Anything from social shunning, boycotts and blackballing upwards. There’s a whole host of ways to fuck people over without even breaking the law. Even the little things matter, do they or their kids play in any amateur sports/hobbies/clubs you might manage or control? Why are they still involved at this point?

4913

I think all those films/shows/comics etc pushing this idea of “you’ll be just like them” or “don’t sink to their level” has really handicapped the good guys in real life. Look Batman objectively should just kill the Joker.

It’s utilitarianism v. deontology.

4914

Superman did that the first time Joker fucked with him, and look what happened.

4915

That’s a statement that should cause you to pause and reflect.

4916

Nothing wrong with the concept, they didn’t invent the phrase “fair game”, any more than theres nothing wrong with filling UFOs that look like DC8s with sleeping GOP members and parking them by a soon to erupt volcano.

4917

I’m really sad that you think that.