rowe33
5806
I’ll never understand why wearing a cross is supposed to be some sign of virtue, but I also don’t understand anyone that says they won’t wear one while traveling through Barovia.
Pfft, crosses have no power in Barovia. What you want is a Holy Symbol of Ravenkind.
You know, my “anyone who brings up ‘virtue signaling’ in earnest is an asshole” metric has never let me down.
Everything I said is 100% true
Starting to see some rats edging toward the lifeboats.
KevinC
5811
Sink the lifeboats and let 'em drown. The time to abandon ship was years ago, doing so now is just the same cowardice that brought us to this point.
I said that! But still a DO has lower admission requirements than an MD and of course
That extra coursework is pseudoscientific quackery. Not confidence inducing.
RichVR
5815
So he doesn’t know why they take a knee, or he’s being willfully obtuse?
He’s kind of a moron, but this falls under ‘willfully obtuse’. Looking forward to his next ‘done with the NBA’ tweet, though.
I guess I would have to see how far “abandon ship” extends to. If the GOP is willing to impeach Trump if he goes nuclear? That could save lives. It still seems inconceivable that they would do so, though.
Banzai
5818
Not everything you have said is true, and I know because I am a DO who graduated from TCOM not that long ago. We take the same licensing exams as MDs, the same board certification exams as MDs, and go to the same residency programs as MDs. DO school is harder than MD school becuase of the extra time needed to master these techniques, in addition to the knowledge we still have to have to pass licensing, boards, and get into residencies.
Because of that extra time, we have extra skills in our toolbox that MDs do not. I don’t claim that all of the DO techniques will provide miracle cures - that would be bullshit quackery and not supported by evidence, but some of the skills can be very useful for specific circumstances, partcularly for pain complaints, and have evidence behind them to prove their efficacy.
We do not know why some of the techniques work, but doctors use medications all the time whose mechanisms of action are not fully understood. We don’t turn those medications away because of that - we still use them based on the evidence of their effectiveness. Think of DO techniques as such medicines - Some seem to have good efficacy, and some do not. I use the ones that seem to help and have evidence behind them to support my observations, and do not use the others.
To paint DOs as practitioners of pseudoscience quackery is bullshit. To say that they have a lower bar to pass to gain a license is simply not true. My license to practice medicine, which includes using the techniques I learned in medical school, explicitly states otherwise.
When I posted Ms Ward’s academic credential, I wasn’t really sure what the story of osteopathic degree, so this has been educational for me. My main point was that I never heard of either school she attended, and I seriously doubt they are top tier schools.
Banzai
5820
West Virginia is a good school, and AT Still was the first DO school, so I don’t doubt that she had a good medical education at both institutions. Sadly, that doesn’t prevent people from having their own dumbass ideas that aren’t based on evidence or critical thinking. Hopefully the medical board in her state will want to have a basic little chat with her about these particular crazy beliefs.
Here’s a link from Mayo on DO vs MD that I hope will help to educate people on the differences: https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/consumer-health/expert-answers/osteopathic-medicine/faq-20058168
I’ve never been treated by a DO and I frankly don’t know too much about them, but I do have a few relatives who “settled” for going to an OD program when they couldn’t get into an MD one. Sopyfrog’s comments about the lower admissions standards appears to be true: https://www.shemmassianconsulting.com/blog/md-vs-do-admissions-what-are-the-differences
“For the 2018-2019 academic year, the average MCAT and GPA for students entering US MD programs were 511.2 and 3.72, respectively, yet 503.8 and 3.54 for individuals matriculating into DO programs in 2018.”
The MCAT difference, in particular, is pretty dramatic (~85th percentile versus ~60th percentile).
The website I linked indicates that MDs take a different licensing exam than DOs. I do not know the differences between them.
According to this, that doesn’t seem to be required: https://afterrounds.lww.com/students/usmle-vs-comlex-what-you-need-to-know/#:~:text=The%20United%20States%20Medical%20Licensing,do%20take%20it%20as%20well.
Though apparently some DO students do take both, as it affects what residency programs they may be eligible for.
Even if that is true that most take both, it seems they don’t need to pass both, so I don’t think one can assume that all DOs passed the same licensure exam as MDs. Again, not saying that one is harder or easier than the other.
Also, googling shows that the pass rate for these exams seems pretty high, so I’m really not sure what to take away from that in terms of the ability of MDs and ODs. The admission stats seem to provide more differentiation, though admittedly not necessarily meaningful differentiation when it comes to actual ability to practice medicine (but how the hell do you measure that?).
Everything I said is true. I clearly stated that IN THE US osteopathic physicians get basically the same training as MDs.
Nothing you said contradicts what i said. The only difference is you place value on effectively non-medical osteopathic techniques. To me it’s just vestigial woo.
Osteopaths outside the US are quacks (the non medical ones in the US are also quacks). It’s basically chiropracty with even more pseudoscience. It is absolutely on par with homeopathy and other junk alternative medicine.
I have an osteopath friend. Unsurprisingly she is also anti-vax and has a wide range of whacky beliefs. That’s because osteopathy ISN’T ANYTHING so it’s easy to be an osteopath. The school she went to even got nailed for attempting to practice medicine illegally.
Osteopathy has never achieved anything you can’t safely get with a therapeutic massage.
Your education has value because you learned actual medicine in a regulated setting. The osteopathic part of it is worthless.
Banzai
5828
You are wrong for exactly the reasons I have already stated. US DO physicians are not the same as osteopaths from other countries and the techniques that we learn in medical school are not what those foreign osteopaths use.
To conflate US osteopathic techniques with what foreign osteopaths do is incorrect.
To state that the techniques I use do not help my patients is simply wrong. As long as you keep making false claims, I will continue to refute them.
DOs in the US have been the target of slander for decades, mostly from the established MD community who saw them rightly as competition, despite both DO and MD education following evidence and science as it developed since the late 1800s. It has taken a long time to get equal practice rights, for no good reasons other than protectionism and politics, and Im not going to just let false statements go by without putting the facts out there for general education. .
So, is the GOP still morally corrupt, or what? Didn’t realize this was now the “Doctors, how does it work?” thread…
