The GOP is still morally corrupt, even if Discourse breaks

We’re capable of discussing multiple issues. You can pick and choose the ones you want to discuss! And I would argue that Timex is doing more than circling a drain. He’s approaching the issue from a perspective that helps explain why the abortion debate might deserve actual discussion, and how it’s not always about telling women what to do with their bodies.

I’ve made my decision on the matter, and I suspect most of us have as well. But that doesn’t mean we should stop thinking about it, and it certainly doesn’t mean we should reduce the opposing side of the argument to nothing more than sanctimonious men jealously guarding their dominance over women. There can be more to the issue than that.

-Tom

An existing thread doesn’t mean the topic won’t be discussed elsewhere. Besides, isn’t the GOP stance on abortion one of the fundamental and most enduring elements of its moral corruption? Seems pretty on-topic to me, officer!

-Tom

Abortion is absolutely critical to GOP hypocrisy, with guys like Trump saying how important it is, while paying women to have abortions.

But at the same time, i feel like it’s possible that actual normal people can have complex thoughts on this issue. Indeed, i think most people do.

Most Americans support some abortions, while also supporting making some abortions illegal.

Well someone let me know when you guys get through it so I can refollow the thread.

+1

Like this:

And this:

This is one of those examples on Qt3 where you guys would rather high-five each other for thinking the same thing rather than engage in a discussion that might involve actually thinking about the issue and articulating what you believe. And actually, it’s worse than that, because like @easytarget’s initial responses to Timex, you’d rather just contribute noise.

But when ACB is confirmed and if/when Roe v Wade is then overturned, abortion rights deserve a better argument than “religious fundamentalists hate women case closed!” I mean, yeah, those guys are dicks, but there’s actually more to the conversation. And it’s increasingly likely that conversation will take place at the state levels in the near future, where legislatures are going to be all over the place, and compromises will have to be made. Those compromises will involves the kinds of discussions Timex is posing.

Anyway, I welcome the discussion, particularly in the context of what’s going on with the Republican party. Roe v Wade is too tenuous a foundation for what should be a fundamental right for women, and it’s one of many reasons the Republican party in its current form is a cancer to American politics.

-Tom

Well I didn’t see this in my unread but you tagged me so it came up in my notifications. Actually I have complicated thoughts of my own about abortion that I would share if I cared to, but it is not something I wanted to discuss, so I have stayed out of the abortion thread. Perhaps my ideas differ from abidingdude. I wouldn’t know, because what we agree on isn’t abortion, it’s that if we wanted to have a talk about it we would head over to the dedicated thread, and now we find this thread is less useful. On a further note, I appreciate forums for the way they sort threads of conversation into specific places, so I can go reference those threads later to find what we were talking about. When conversation wanders out into less-focused threads, it tends to get lost over time, and that bothers me as well.

I seriously do not know how you came to the conclusion that we are hiveminding our feelings on abortion rather than joining in here, maybe I just misunderstood.

Thanks Tom. I also wonder what a conservative overturn of RvW would be.

What is the impact on the foundation of that decision, a Constitutional right to privacy from the government, which seems really,really relevant in the 21st century?

ffs

Maddow asked Cohen about this a few weeks ago and even Cohen said he didn’t know of any.

Idk I know lots of women who are like “fuck yeah gimme this horribly uncomfortable at best procedure cuz I fuckin love abortion.”

You people are so fuckin’ weird.

I think a few of reasons we can’t have rational, real life substantive debate is there is no getting around the fact that it is a woman and her body that this debate is centered around, two concepts that have been the targets of societies ruled by men as less than. It doesn’t matter that it’s not fair to phrase it that way; it’s the reality. We celebrated 100 years of voting, for white women, and it’s not even ancient history yet that women even have a voice. So yes, they have to have a very strong voice.

Another is, we know what this looks like. It’s not as if we don’t have recent history of abortion being illegal. It wasn’t good for anyone, a lot of people died in horrific pain and suffering, and it… didn’t actually stop abortions. Whereas today the number of abortions has actually been going down. Which brings me to my final point.

Sex. That’s right; in the USA we are so hung-up on sex. Pushing it on the boys, celebrating their sexual wants and prowess while at the same time shaming girls, trying to put all the responsibility on them and still pushing abstinence and keeping people ignorant and allowing sex education to be voluntary as if we don’t know what a failed policy that has been, has always been. And of course contraception goes right up there.

Talking about when life begins or when it doesn’t to focus everything on one case often just tries to shortcut the other difficult conversations.

Excellent points all round Nesrie +1.

Yup, the Puritan’s hang-ups about sex, plus we still have inherited patriarchal ideas about pregnancy that go back to Roman times. A woman’s uterus is property of the society, or her husband. She doesn’t get to say who gets to use it for reproduction, or for fun. When she is pregnant, she is obliged to birth the child for the pleasure of the father, who may or may not choose to parent it. Rape is not a crime against the woman, but against her husband, because you have made him uncertain as to the purity of his progeny. Etc.

Even when I was super conservative, I saw this.

So much so that I voted for Clinton when Dole went anti-abortion.

I voted all the rest Republican to balance it out, naturally, but still.

They could disavow them, but mustn’t alienate the base.

The GOP has been courting racists for 50 years. Hard to tell the racists to go fuck off when you want them as your constituents.

So very, very private.

Just palpate them. When you’re famous, they let you do anything.

I realize this being a bit pedantic, but the Proud Boys aren’t racist. At least that’s what they claim, and it seems they were maybe telling the truth. Their leader is black Cuban-American, and 10-20% of their membership is black and Hispanic. They proudly embrace everything else: anti-Semitic,anti-muslim, chauvinistic, xenophobic, homophobic, and general hate-filled anarchist but not racist. So technically, I’m not sure they are White-Supremacy either.