I don’t think anyone disagrees on that. Why is that an issue? He said he was on board but needed to see the evidence. As time passed and no evidence appeared he backed away from the Kraken stuff publicly. By Jan 6th he was voting to certify. What’s the problem? Am I missing an angle here?
I think advocating a plan to overturn an election when you don’t have any evidence of any problem with an election is abnormal and bad. I think it’s especially bad when you’re a US Senator. I think it’s even worse when you become part of it by working the phones to make it happen. And I think Mike Lee probably thinks it is bad, too, or he would not have lied about when he found out about the Eastman plan.
KevinC
13613
The angle of throwing out election results and the will of the people by replacing their votes with GOP appointed electors?
Thrag
13614
Kinda putting the cart before the horse there don’t you think?
The story here isn’t so much about Lee but yet more evidence that a coup was clearly plotted. Lee’s involvement and his general lying bullshit about being a constitutionaliat is just a minor footnote.
I mean, it was the willingness of people like Mike Lee to engage in this shit that gave ordinary citizens the cause and the incentive and the cover to attack the US Congress.
Thrag
13616
Right, let’s not ignore the lying.
Thrag
13617
The best part of this bit really is how he championed Powell right up until he actually heard her speak. Get vetting job there Mike.
That’s not a bad thing if there’s proof of election fraud that impacted the outcome. That’s a blow for justice.
We all know now that there was no material fraud. We all knew it on Jan 6th too. But there was a period right after the election where several states reported surprising results and recounts we’re happening and so forth. In that period a reasonable person with proper respect for the rule of law can have a discussion about finding legal means of overturning the election if proof of fraud impacting the results can be found.
KevinC
13619
But Lee wasn’t concerned about voter fraud on a massive scale. Let me post this again:
He’s not asking for recounts or investigations into fraud! He’s looking for any means to have the GOP replace state electors with their own partisans to overturn the election.
Mike Lee was just asking questions.
KevinC
13621
Right? JFC, I need to step away from this thread for a while before my head fuckin’ explodes.
Thrag
13622
Maybe I missed the text where Lee makes clear that he objects to the coup on an entirely legal basis. I see a lot of worry that it won’t work and may make them or Trump look bad.
I mean look at this:
I think we’re now passed the point where we can expect anyone will do it without some direction and a strong evidentiary argument,
That’s not a statement that he requires evidence to back the coup. He’s already been backing the coup and he just fears the moment has passed where they can pull it off by audacity alone and they might need to actually find evidence first to get others on board (unlike himself who required no evidence).
Even this:
“I know only this will end badly for the president unless we have the Constitution on our side. And unless these states submit new slates of Trump electors pursuant to state law, we do not,
He’s not concerned that it is illegal. He’s concerned it won’t work. The legality is an element of why it won’t work, but it is not his objection.
That’s about right, IMO. Outside of unwavering support of the traitor caucus, anyway.
Well, hell, Now I’ve gone and talked myself back into the coward + traitor position w/r/t Mike Lee, the traitorous coward from Utah.
New plan for all Democratic speeches on the floor of Congress.
Liberty Through Authoritarianism! (note the date)
ShivaX
13627
I get the whole “mob rule” thing he was going for, but at the same time that’s… uh… not a good look.
Because “Democracy” in America has never meant Direct Democracy.
Especially galling when your party is trying to end elections and tried to launch a coup.
“lol, the US is a republic” is like, a grade school level comeback used when you’ve got nothing in your intellectual tank. Basically, “no, ur mom”.
ShivaX
13629
It’s one of those factoid things that tries to ignore the “democratic republic” part.
Like an actual Democracy doesn’t exist anywhere in the world, yet we refer to Western Europe and the US as “democracies” and have since 1778 or so.
Also we elected a demagogue with their “not democracy” anyway because the guys saying “we’re not a democracy” are the same guys who said “the people have spoken, we’re a democracy” when the electoral college had to decide things. Of course now that it might be “the will of the people only we don’t win,” well maybe the electoral system needs to subvert that from the same exact people.
