The GOP is still morally corrupt, even if Discourse breaks

[scottagibson]

@Timex

Prominent evangelical leaders, such as Rick Warren,[9] Ben Witherington III,[9] and Jerry Falwell,[84] have harshly criticized the movement, sometimes denouncing it as heretical.[9]

Strangely, all three of these men have made themselves wealthy through preaching the gospel.

[Thrag]

“Sometimes” does a lot of work in that sentence.

[Timex]

It’s important to understand that the prosperity gospel is a specific kind of evangelical grift, and that you can be an evangelical grifter while not employing the prosperity gospel.

[scottagibson]

@Timex

It’s important to understand that the prosperity gospel is a specific kind of evangelical grift, and that you can be an evangelical grifter while not employing the prosperity gospel.

Yes, this is certainly true, but it doesn’t do much to enhance the credibility of the so-called ‘sometime denouncers’ of prosperity gospel.

[SadleyBradley]

That seems like a distinction that, while accurate, is so infinitesimally marginal as to not impact the point being made, which is that there’s an angle of attack against evangelicalism to be made pointing out the hypocrisy of churches lining their pockets while preaching about how we ought to help the poor (although, I don’t think helping the poor figures much into any preaching these days).

[Timex]

@SadleyBradley

(although, I don’t think helping the poor figures much into any preaching these days)

When was the last time you were in a church?
I assure you there are many, many evangelical Christians who dedicate themselves to helping the poor.

[Telefrog]

@SadleyBradley

I don’t think helping the poor figures much into any preaching these days

That reads more like you just don’t agree with any religion when they say they need money for charitable work.

[Matt_W]

@Thrag

Jimmy Carter is an evangelical. Just remember that when reaching for that broad brush.

I think the broad brush is pretty applicable

[SadleyBradley]

It’s a generalization, sure, and I’m sure there’s a non-zero amount of charity work going on, but I know tons of religious folks, and I have not heard an ounce of talk about good works in the last six years.

[Thrag]

Seriously guys, the term evangelical has pretty wide meaning and variety of adoptions. It’s like saying protestant to complain specifically about, to choose at random, calvinists.

Given the help the poor type of evangelicals aren’t very loud about it, and the grifter type by necessity are very loud it’s easy to consider the whole category by the loudest examples but it’s not accurate.

[scottagibson]

@Matt_W

I think the broad brush is pretty applicable

Yeah, that is pretty damned stark.

[GregB]

@Thrag

calvinists.

Oh God, don’t get me started!

[wisefool]

it seems like the guy standing in the background finally processed what Hitler lover says and tries to sit down to get out of camera range.

[abrandt]

@Thrag

Given the help the poor type of evangelicals aren’t very loud about it, and the grifter type by necessity are very loud it’s easy to consider the whole category by the loudest examples but it’s not accurate.

I think the stance on poverty is one of those areas where politics corrupted the religious community that has intertwined with it(the Republican party intertwined with the broader evangelical community) than anything that started from the religious side. Always hard to tell at this point as they are so intertwined and people have certainly contorted themselves to find a theological reason why it’s okay to say “fuck the poor”.

We help out a few times a year with a community free food distribution at our pretty conservative church. It’s pretty sad to me that it’s necessary that at each of those events when starting the volunteer orientation our pastor has to give a several minute long speech explaining how human the people we’re helping are and how their life circumstances aren’t something they chose by being lazy moochers. He’s a lot more eloquent about it than that and it’s a good introduction to the complexity of poverty, but I still can’t help but realize how much it’s required for some individuals to try to get around years of conservative media programming.

[Nightgaunt]

Very worthwhile activity to police how and when religious traditions we don’t adhere to apply the label of heresy.

[scottagibson]

‘Police’ is a funny word to use when what you mean is ‘have an opinion about’.

[CraigM]

For the record I am far more connected to the evangelical community than most here, including yourself for certain, and I find the application of heretic to the political evangelical we see to day not only fair, but fundamentally accurate in several key ways.

I’ve for years been of the position that the Evangelical church is no longer Christian as applied WRT actual practice.

[Alstein]

One reason I’ve said white evangelical (though I’ve tried to make it clear I count some non-white churches in that) is because black Evangelicals would strongly disagree with what you’re saying, and they’re both correct and have a right to that name.

One of my best friends growing up was a black Evangelical. The congressional candidate I supported with my heart and was the first donor for in the 2020 primary was a black Evangelical.

[CraigM]

You said white, I said political, same thing. The reason I say political evangelical because it is to hi light how their religious practice and belief has become fully usurped by political ideology.

But bottom line? I do not consider them Christian (in the theological sense) as their belief structure and action do not comport with an actual philosophy based upon the collected writings around the figure of Jesus of Nazareth. Their usage of the words and concepts therein is akin to those bad english tee shirts from foreign companies. The sounds and words may be there, but are put together in nonsensical ways and with no real understanding.

Evangelicals be like

[TheWombat]

@scottagibson

It’s true that both sides in any war are engaged in a war, but it isn’t true that both sides in any war want to be engaged in that war. It can be the case, and often is, that one side is the aggressor and the other is defending itself against aggression.

True enough. The war is still there of course, but the way one engages can vary.