Guess who found a Microsoft Sidewinder Force Feedback 2 for just $6.99 at Goodwill this afternoon!
I hope it works. I like the AVB Top Shot Pegasus force feedback joystick I picked up on the cheap (it could be yours for $8.98) a couple months back, but it’s huge and the trigger doesn’t work right.
That thing does, indeed, look cheap. And it’s a rip off a Logitech joystick I had a few years ago.
This reminds me of my favorite FF effect in Freespace. Your ship gets heavily damaged and the stick will move the center somewhere else. You have to fight to fly straight.
This thread is making me think it’s time to play FS2 tonight. I love my MS FF2.
Yup I got FS2Open installed with FSport. I feel like an idiot because I think I played all of FS2 without the media VPs a few months ago. I’m surprised it holds up well enough that I didn’t even notice. It’s mostly the sound and effects that do it for me anyway rather than the graphics.
With this joystick, I’m drooling thinking about flying alongside a capital ship and getting hit by flak and zooming through engine wash with the afterburner. Shake it, baby!
I missed out on so much gaming joy as a kid.
Okay so apparently FS1 doesn’t have as much capital ship fun as FS2, but my question is: is the MS FFB2 a lot better than the original joystick in many different ways or should I stop worrying about it?
If it’s working properly, then don’t worry about it. The main difference I remember is that the ForceFeedback Pro 2 came with a gameport-to-usb adaptor thingie and it just seemed to always magically work for me when I connected it to a USB port, whereas when I used the same adaptor for the FFP1, sometimes it wouldn’t work properly, and I had to connect to a gameport on a soundcard, and it was a big fucking pain in the ass to get to work properly sometimes, while the FFP2 just worked for me. Always.
I haven’t seen anything in depth on it yet, but over at SimHQ they mentioned they had a hands on with a new Logitech Force Feedback HOTAS. Should have an article up on it soon, their Day 2 E3 report has a picture in the Rise of Flight section.
edit: Here it is: Logitech FF HOTAS.
Looks like it is a full stick, throttle and rudder setup for $299. Not cheap but actually pretty reasonable compared to CH or old Thrustmaster offerings. Throttle is a split throttle too, which is neat. It even has spots where you can bolt it to things.
Thanks. I was looking at it at GameStop and was worried the construction might have been too flimsy (despite being from a reputable manufacturer). I feel a lot better now about buying one.
Ok, so it is finally decision time and I am paralysed with indecision. (I know, I’ve taken my time.)
Has anyone has experience with the Thrustmaster T.Flight HOTAS?
The price has me suspicious. Are Thrustmaster’s lower end sticks of reasonable quality or will I be wasting my time and money?
Am I better off buying a midrange stick from Saitek or CH? If I buy the CH without the rudder axis am I going to hate myself forever. At this point I am paralysed with indecision… Aaarrggggargle.
How about the Thrustmaster T16.000M?
What was the problem with the X52? I’m also considering the non-pro variant of this.
I had similar problems buying a joystick and it took me three goes to find the right one.
The first was a Saitek Cyborg Evo which is just horrible. Everything about it felt cheap and couldn’t recommend it at all.
Then I tried the CH Fighter stick and whilst I can’t fault the build quality it just didn’t work for me. It sits very high with a large base and I found it too unwieldy to use comfortably. The use of so many hat switches rather than buttons became confusing in the ‘heat of battle’ and I also just didn’t like the stick movement which seemed very light. I can understand why some people really love these but as I said it just wasn’t for me.
My stick of choice is the Thrustmaster T.16000M you mentioned. The overall size and weight seem just about right giving plenty of stability but you can still hold it comfortable in both hands like a regular jostick/joypad if needed. The stick movement is excellent and very precise though I guess some might find the spring a little too heavy. Even the twist rudder controller works well as again the spings are tight and so tends to avoid those accidental movements which can be a problem with other sticks. My only issue so far is the with the position of the throttle controller (I don’t use a separate unit) and would have preferred a wheel or slider on the side rather than the rear of the base. However if you’re going HOTAS this probably wouldn’t be a problem.
Overall though its kind of difficult to recommend a specific joystick to anyone, I bought all mine online which was probably a mistake. Ideally you need to get ‘hands on’ just to see how each works for you - if you have an accommodating game store nearby I’d certainly recommend asking them.
Hope this is some help :)
Thank you, this is exactly the sort of information I was looking for. I will avoid the Cyborg as I don’t enjoy sticks that feel cheap and nasty.
Unfortunately there are no brick and mortar shops that stock anything besides Logitec and Genius around here. This is largely the reason for my paralysis. Add to the fact that shipping costs as much or even more than the joystick I will be ordering and the decision becomes a little more tricky.
So far it’;s looking increasingly like a toss up between the X52 HOTAS setup and the T.16000M. I’m also a little suspicious about the price of the X52, even though simhq.com gave it a very good writeup it sounds a bit too good to be true when I take the price into account…
Edit: I’ve read the review of the X52 Pro and the same reviewer who reviewed the standarrd one is now bashing it.
sigh
Have the same problem with only a local branch of GAME and not much else.
From my own experiences the Thrustmaster is a good all round gaming joystick which suits me fine but the X52 HOTAS set up does seem to be one of the current choices for the more hard core flight simmers. Having never used the X52 though I can’t say either way sorry.
How does the build quality, sensitivity and
accuracy of the T16000M stack up against the fighterstick?
I’ve always thought that CH is the pinnacle of rugged joystick comstruction.
Nothing really wrong with it, I just decided that since I had the money to piss away on CH equipment, I might as well do that. For the money, the X52 is fantastically great. I definitely think the CH Fighterstick is vastly better in terms of construction, precision and feel, but it also costs more than the entire X52. However, I much prefer the X52 throttle to the CH throttle, although my highly modified CH throttle fixes most of my issues. I honestly wouldn’t hesitate to get the X52. It’s a hell of a lot of HOTAS at a fraction of the price for CH equipment and should make all but the hardest of the hardcore happy.
Edit: If you don’t have a TrackIR, get that first.
It’s been a while since I’ve done any serious simming, but a number of really intriguing sims have started popping up in the last year or so, and I’ve been thinking of getting back in the saddle, so to speak. Particularly Rise of Flight and, the title that is most likely to push me over the edge, DCS Black Shark. And rumor has it that those guys are working on an A-10 sim, and may do an AH-64D sim at some point… it’s like they have a direct line into my brain and are working their way down my wishlist!
Anyway, my gear is way out of date. Actually, I don’t even have a HOTAS any more. I got rid of my old Saitek X36 a while back–it was wearing out, with one button broken, and the stick was getting sloppy and not centering properly. Plus, it required a 15-pin gameport, which is something that I haven’t even had on my last two computers. So my current controller inventory consists of one old-but-functioning Sidewinder Precision Pro 2. A bit low-rent, but a good all-around stick, and it could work in a pinch. I did play the original Longbow with a Sidewinder, and hell, I remember playing Gunship 2000 with just a keyboard. Which is not a feat that I’d want to repeat today, but it is a good reality check when I get too caught up in thinking that one can’t live without a bunch of expensive gear.
That said, I wouldn’t mind doing a bit of upgrading. But I’d rather not break the bank. So Qt3, help me choose my gear!
Option #1: Saitek X52
This currently sells for $60 at Best Buy, which is a crazy low price for a full-blown HOTAS. Downsides are that it’s ugly, looks cheap and plastic-y, and kind of is cheap and plastic-y, according to most of the reviews that I’ve seen. But… $60. It has a twist axis on the stick for rudder, which is not really my ideal choice for a helicopter sim, but it can work. There’s also the X52 Pro, which is supposed to have better build quality, though the cheapest price I’ve seen on it is $150.
Option #2: CH stick and… ?
I’ve always wanted a CH stick. I tried a friend’s CH Combatstick a long while back, and was very impressed how sturdy and precise it was, but I’ve never worked up the nerve to drop that kind of cash on sim gear. The biggest problem is that neither the CH sticks nor their throttle (assuming you add that in) have anything that would work well for a rudder control. So you are almost obligated to get a set of pedals, which adds even more to the cost. One alternative, though, is to skip the HOTAS and instead go with a HOPAS–get the pedals instead of a throttle. The CH sticks all have a throttle wheel on the base, and honestly, that would probably be good enough for most simming needs, from a functional standpoint. While a dedicated throttle is definitely cool to use, I think it’s a lot less of an upgrade, functionally, than either a high-end stick or a precise, analog rudder control. Using my Sidewinder in sims, the throttle dial is probably the one control that didn’t feel all that limiting. It really works about as well, in practice, as a full-sized throttle. Either way, going with CH controllers would be a pricey option. The Combatstick sells for about $75, and the pedals and throttle are both around $100.
Option #3: Roughing it
And of course, I could always just stick with the Sidewinder PP2, and look at putting my money towards something like TrackIR. Which is something that I’ve never used, but damn if it doesn’t look like it would be handy. Especially with a virtual cockpit. And it’s come down in price quite a bit–TrackIR 4 can be had for under $100. Would that be an acceptable alternative to the newer but more expensive TrackIR 5 ($150)? Is there really that much of a difference between the two?
Or not so rough…
And, of course, I could get a Saitek X52 and TrackIR 4 for what it would cost me to get the CH setup. Maybe that would be the way to go. Then again, will I end up kicking myself for passing up yet another opportunity to splurge on an awesome CH stick? I just don’t know.
TL;DR, I know, but any advice would be appreciated. :)
You can look around for thoughts on TrackIR 5 vs. 4. I haven’t tried 5, but the most important new features are higher resolution and slightly wider field of view. I don’t know how much of a difference the resolution makes, but I do okay with 4. If you use headphones, you might want to consider getting 4 and the Trackclip Pro for a little less money than 5 plus the reflectors for a hat. Unfortunately I never use headphones so I haven’t used mine much. I need to find a little headband for it or something.
Man, I still have an old CH Combat Stick (gameport, not usb) hanging around from playing XWing/Tie Fighter and Wing Commander. And an old Flightstick… No, not Pro. And a barely used SpaceOrb that I haven’t brought myself to throw away.
Is it a coincidence that this thread popped up when GOG is having a sale on Descent, Freespace & Freespace 2?
I’ve been using Saitek for years, currently using an X-45 because my X-52 bit the dust and I had it as a backup. I actually prefer the X-45 because of the rudder-rocker on the underside of the throttle, rather than the twist method on the X-52, but YMMV. Overall I’ve been very, very happy with my Saitek sticks.