The Last of Us 2 - Ellie Can Swim (Spoiler thread)

No. Full Stop. What are you even talking about? Death threats and hate speech?

I am not espousing those things. I am saying “Fuck any sequel” to the perfect ending of TLOU and the creative choice to do one based on a NOBODY from the ending is actually complete shit.

The death threats and hate speech were already discussed somewhat in this thread, and is how I read “the mud that is this whole ugly ordeal” because that’s not how I would describe some folks just not liking the game but more this bullshit.

You read me wrong then I guess. Whatever.

Seriously. The stance that any criticism of this game is part of the bullshit misogynistic hate is dumb. You can legitimately not like a thing without it being an argument against women or LGBTQ causes, and you can have that discussion without taking part in death threats to the creators.

No fucking duh. But he was specifically talking bout “backlash” and “ugly ordeal”.

I can’t speak for @roguefrog, but yeah, in this day and age, with innumerable examples prior, how could anyone not expect backlash against this game? I think that’s an honest assessment of the sad fact that this is what passes for discourse on the internet.

I imagine Naughty Dog was bracing for it, and the leaks didn’t help.

PlayStation has announced that The Last of Us Part 2 has sold over 4 million copies as of June 21, making it the fastest-selling first-party PlayStation 4 exclusive ever just three days after its release


Some of it IS hate for Abby being a nonfeminine and masculine. I watched a fair number of streams on youtube and twitch, and half the guys (and even gals) couldn’t stop making ‘SHES SO BUFF, OMG SHES SO DAMN BIG. OMG AN OGRE! ITS SHREKS SISTER!’ Maybe initially I can get it, but cmon, they make this the whole joke of the game. its like some of these people have never left there house and seen a women that really works out.

A part of the criticism is they don’t want a buff girl as hero, they’d prefer the waifish ‘pixie’ girl Elle as hero. I frankly dont give a shit, but its really annoying when people DO hate the game because of Abby. If abby was a hot babe in the vein of Resident EVil Ada Wong… thered be alot more… yeah the games pretty good! I love Abby!

Also, narrative in a game can be terrible and the game still be very good. Remember Mass Effect 3 (that was a total shit ending)? Still a very good game.

Okay, but who here is saying any of that? Can we not engage with the actual things being discussed here without assuming the motive behind people’s posts?

Wut? Abby is feminine and hot. I go to a climbing gym. Lots of women with big shoulders. Hot.

And it’s not like this is something new:

Damn if Lupita Nyong’o isn’t one of the most gorgeous women to ever walk the planet. And look at those guns!

Perfect ending? Did we play the same TLOU1? While I really enjoyed the gameplay and the experience overall, I’m hard pressed to find any of the narrative of the first game especially compelling, even without comparing it to the media its aping.

If anything, you should play TLOU2 to see just how much the developers stepped back and took a hard look at their own game/narrative design in the first game, and improved it in the sequel.

As a story, with a father/daughter relationship…it is a most excellent ending if I may say so myself. The ending felt finished. Complete. Very bold and satisfying.

In no uncertain terms, I always dreaded a sequel to TLOU. Because it didn’t need one. Especially one that compromised that ending…but they did, in the worst way possible.

That is all.

I don’t see how they did this. At the end of the first game we know Joel has chosen the good of the one over the unknown many, moreover he lies to Ellie about it and robs her of making that choice because he can’t bare to lose her. None of THAT is compromised in the sequel, it’s all built on that.

As much as I loved the first game, the ending felt unfinished to me. He lied to her about why they left the hospital, and that always felt unresolved. It’s the kind of unresolved I could have been okay with, don’t get me wrong, but I was happy to have a sequel get announced, and it lived up to my expectations on every level. Also, what @forgeforsaken said.

Not to mention - if you enjoy Ellie and Joel’s relationship, or even if you felt like me and thought it was totally underdeveloped in the first game - they flesh it out so much more deeply in the sequel. I actually believed Ellie and Joel’s relationship thanks to TLOU2’s references and vignettes related to it, which were much more emotionally resonant than the events of the first game

Yeah, I think that was totally the intent.

Because they have been honed by a hostile world and circumstance into unstoppable killing machines. They’re broken, weapons that only know how to solve problems one way.

I never thought the Farmhouse was the end. It felt so wrong the whole time. I was on pins and needles waiting for a turn.

There’s actually a hint in the Farmhouse that things aren’t as perfect as they seem. Ellie has a book about coping with anxiety on her side of the bed.

There’s no such thing as a “nobody”. That’s one of the major themes of the game.

Just wrapped this up. Well, that was certainly a thing.

I thought the original Last of Us was fantastic. Not the biggest fan of the gameplay, but I felt the story and characters were solid. And I thought the game ended on just the right note. To me, the central theme of the first game was “making the wrong decision for all the right reasons.” And if they had ended the game with Joel and Ellie driving away in the car, I would have been happy. I don’t think the final scene just outside of town was needed.

I also don’t think TLOU2 was needed. While the gameplay was improved (still hated the boss battles) the narrative was a scattered mess. Switching perspective to Abby mid-game killed my motivation to play. Not because I hated Abby. I just didn’t care. In fact, by the time the mid-game theater scene unfolded I stopped really caring about Ellie, or Dina, or Tommy. Fuck 'em all. A pox on all houses.

Spending all that time with Abby to evoke a sense of empathy for that character felt grossly manipulative. I saw what they were doing and wanted no part of it. When Abby finally got back to the theater to have it out with Ellie, I fucked up the battle and Ellie killed Abby. I honestly thought that was how it was supposed to play out. Then I realized the story had other plans. I finish all that and get to what I thought was the denouement on the farm.

I was so disappointed when the game just kept going. Ugh. I just didn’t care anymore. I didn’t want to spend any more time with these horrible people. So I dutifully finished it, put the controller down, and shrugged. Yuck.

This. The game overstayed its welcome, which I think was true of the original as well. From a gameplay perspective, there were simply too many battles to remain interesting. The boss battles were terrible. Too hard to figure out what to do, and at a certain point when you have to repeat boss battles they go from tense to annoying.

The main hook for me of the first one was how the characters developed throughout the course of their adventures together. THe way Joel heals from the tragedy of his daughter’s death to making a morally questionable decision. Like GrebB said above, the wrong decision for the right reason. THere was none of that in the sequel. Just two people trying to kill each other out of revenge. I get what the developers were trying to say - I just didn’t find it interesting.

Just finished this yesterday. Avoiding the main conflict, one thing the developers got right was the incidental storytelling. Every area had collectibles that were well thought out and told a deeper background of what had happened there. They were well written and appropriately horrifying for the world they built. I also really enjoyed when there were two characters on screen and the interactions they had. You had to go out and explore some to get it, but it made them more fleshed out. For example Dina and Ellie in a music store in Seattle and talk about forming a band. Dina plays the drums. None of it mattered to the main story, but it helped flesh out the characters.

I think in hindsight they told the story in the wrong order. It might have been better if the stories of Ellie and Abby were played in parallel and the Joel reveal came later. Its certainly interesting to play a character the developers have established you should hate. And it might work from a story telling perspective, I’m not sure it makes for an enjoyable gaming experience though.