I like that the show borrowed from the Last Temptation (of Galadriel)…it works very well here. The cut to the drowning even ties to what her brother says to swim, very powerful to me! … its a tightly packed foreshadowing too!

I really enjoyed that as well. How about this exchange with her brother in the first episode?

Galadriel: But sometimes the lights shine just as brightly reflected in the water as they do in the sky. It’s hard to say which way is up and which way is down. How am I to know which lights to follow?

Finrod: Sometimes we cannot know until we have touched the darkness.

Oh man I love that shot… so Epic!

From the Fellowship of the Ring when Gandalf is speaking to Frodo,

“ Sauron needs only this Ring to cover all the lands in a second darkness. He is seeking it. Seeking it, all his thought is bent on it, and the Ring yearns above all else to return to the hand of its Master. They are one, the Ring and the Dark Lord. Frodo… he must never find it.”

Just as much as Sauron is trying to recover the ring the ring is also trying to return to Sauron, even if it is cast into the ocean it will find a way, which is why it needs to be destroyed.

The world has also been reshaped more than once, so there isn’t even a guarantee underwater will always be underwater.

I think it works for fans whose only Tolkien exposure is Peter Jackson’s trilogy. Not people who know nothing of Tolkien, but people who don’t know any more of Tolkien than the vision of Jackson’s adaptation. So things like the mithril won’t annoy them, but they will understand the importance of the eleven rings, or at least realize they are important if not exactly why just yet.

This. They are targeting the JP films hard.

$3 billion at the box office is gonna draw some attention ;)

Sharpe, I like your 5 season outline a lot. Isn’t part of their problem tied to licensing? I don’t think they can use anything/char from the Silmarillion, like Annatar, etc?

Watched the final episode, which was fine to me. Meteor-man being Gandalf is totally confirmed now, with the ‘when in doubt, always follow your nose’-reference at the end. And despite all the people disliking them, I’m glad the Harfoots are in. To me, this entire show is ‘more of what Middle Earth could be like’. Not necessarily what Tolkien thought it could be like, sure, but definitely what everyone who watched the Peter Jackson movies thinks it could be like. And if you are going to take those movies as a starting point (which Amazon obviously did), setting up a link between Gandalf and the Hobbits makes sense. Now if you focus purely on the creation of the rings-storyline as many people apparently do, the Harfoots are obviously out of place here. But I just want more Middle Earth, so the more storylines, the merrier (pun not intended).

I do hope that next season the writers will tone down the cheap storytricks a bit (pretending Gandalf is Sauron, Poppy not saying goodbye and then of course changing her mind, and all the other examples from earlier episodes). But I will definitely watch and enjoy the next season. Purely as simple entertainment, but that is good enough for me.

Everything in my outline is drawn from Lord of the Rings, including the Appendixes, which they do have the license to. I did not include any Silmarillion specific material. The point of the exercise was to demonstrate that even within the confines of the license and even with the time compression a great Second Age show was possible. Sadly that’s not the show they chose to write.

My reaction mostly aligns with yours. The showrunners don’t trust that a modern audience can be hooked by Tolkien’s story telling and instead decided to make a J.J. Abrams version. I found this quote from an interview they did pretty telling.

The show also gives the Elves more motivation for crafting the rings. You introduce new lore that revolves around the idea that their light is fading and they need mithril to survive in Middle-earth; there’s a story about mithril containing an element of the light of Valinor, via a buried Silmaril, and that it’s thus necessary for the Elves to make artifacts containing it. I thought this could’ve been a lie planted by Sauron, but by the end of the season it seems it might be true in the show’s universe?

J.D. Payne: We knew the rings needed to have a special power to them. Some of that could be in what Sauron inculcates from the unseen world and what Celebrimbor is able to do in terms of beauty. But we thought it could be interesting to play with the kind of power they have. What if there’s a grand unification theory that could connect the light of the Two Trees of Valinor, which went into the Silmarils, to the rings? The three elven rings were at least partially made of mithril; what if there’s something in mithril that could connect to the Silmarils? What if the Silmaril that went into the earth was connected through the roots of a tree that could become mithril? It was a way to connect many parts of the canon, including the elves fading, in a way that incorporated other parts of the legendarium.

Ironically, Celebrimbor’s hubris partially led to him creating the three elven rings, from what he learned from Annatar, not because the elves were suddenly fading and gonna die by Spring because the plot demands it.

This whole process in the show is quite the sprint in comparison to the books were several rings of power are crafted over a much longer period of time (before the 3 elven rings in a blink and you’ll miss it panic, Sauron K THX BYE)

Also in a show called The Rings of Power, Celebrimbor should have been one of the main players. He always felt like a minor side character in the show. Instead, they need hobbits, and a wizard, and Galadriel and Elrond…

Ok, just finished reading this thread after binging the season on the weekend. I’m almost afraid to say that overall I enjoyed the show!

Yes, the mithril thing is irrititating and Gandalf showing up is unexpected, but overall to me its fine and not just “manufactured shit mystery” to create confusion (a great example of authors fucking with the audience was Westworld season 1, which is the reason I havent bothered watching the rest…).

The tone here in the thread reminds me of the Star Wars threads, specifically the Last Jedi, where many found it necessary to create a “happy, no hate please SW thread”. I guess the Amazon series approach mirrors Rian Johnsons “Lets create something new”?

Anyway, I’ll be watching the next season, not sure I’ll be reading the thread. Pity it’ll be almost a decade before this show is done (assuming it reaches the end…)

Not something I’d bet on.

The Northman is a great palate cleanser after watching Rings of Power. No mystery box trickery or waste of time Islidur is dead nonsense. Great story, great world-building, with the right amount of mythic presence.

It’s even got someone jumping off a ship to swim back to land that isn’t stupid and a volcano eruption.

I’m not so sure. Plenty of people watching, and most are less critical than you guys, lol.

Plus, unless it super bombs (which I doubt) Amazon seems committed.

I also loved it, despite some weak writing – I was so thoroughly confused by the finale – and despite me having no familiarity with the source material. I also didn’t follow the thread, partly because I’m invested in a very different way from most of the people in this discussion. But as a glitteringly pretty fantasy world full of glitteringly pretty actors – and a few annoying kids whining about getting kicked off varsity sailing team – without a ton of McGuffin mumbo-jumbo and instead a ton of characters making difficult decisions, this was totally my jam!

I’m a huge fan of an indie horror movie called St. Maud, in which cute little Morfydd Clark plays a religious fanatic. So I absolutely adored all the crazy Galadriel stuff, even when it was super sloppy, because Clark’s performance isn’t that far from what she was doing in St. Maud. She’s so utterly convicted about everything she says. But unlike her character in St. Maud, she’s also powerful to the point of being downright magic! Like how she magically fights a bunch of armed guards into a prison cell without even the benefit of choreography! Booom! That’s lady elf power! All the horse stunts, the survival while adrift, the political maneuvering, the inspirational elf speeches, getting on and off boats, with and without ash, and I might as well mention the horses again because damn, I’d like to see the Comanche try that! You go, girl! And Clark has more than enough conviction to sell it! Morfydd Clark’s unflinching delivery of Super Serious Middle Earth Lore was a real joy to watch in the same way I’d enjoy anyone totally invested in her D&D campaign, but especially trained British actors. :)

I feel similarly about Robert Aramayo’s Elrond. That dude, a British actor through and through, has had quite the career playing rednecks (Surely some of you guys remember him from The Empty Man unfolding secrets for James Badge Dale? Or how about Galveston, where he tries to con Ben Foster?). But look how nice he cleans up! It’s really cool to see him basically playing the role of “elfdom” for the audience, demonstrating what they’re like, how they think, how they feel. Cute little Morfydd Clark plays the fanatical element of the elfs, while the Gil-Galad and Celebrimbore dudes play the politics and craftsmanship of the elfs. Meanwhile Elrond is basically demonstrating their heart and empathy. Their soulfulness, if you will. Aramayo is so good doing that in his scenes with Owain Arthur’s wonderful Durin and especially Sophie Nomvete’s stately Disa.

And hoo boy, I cannot get enough of Disa. Disa singing to the mountain! I never thought I’d say this in a million years, but more lady dwarfs please. I tend to think of dwarfs as comic relief, and Peter Jackson was certainly happy to oblige me. But this felt so very different. I also want more black elfs and hobbits and dwarfs, too. I cannot speak highly enough for the multicultural casting in this. I don’t really take issue with Tolkien’s monoculturalism, because he was a member of a monocultural society, writing about Germanic folklore. Of course it was going to be lily white. But there’s no reason to preserve this if we’re crafting fantasy mythology for a modern audience, and especially for a younger modern audience. So I treasured every single minority elf, dwarf, lady king, or harfoot trailmaster. This is a Tolkien D&D campaign I can really get behind because it’s a Tolkien D&D campaign minus Tolkien’s own cultural trappings. And I’m fine with that.

Also, here’s where I have to lead with the obligatory “I’m not gay, but…” I’m not gay but that Arondir actor is so ridiculously gorgeous that I can barely even pay attention to his love interest’s unflattering overalls cleavage, her deep brown doe eyes, and her strategically stray locks of hair. It’s quite the state of affairs when a woman that lovely – she’s a dead ringer for a young Joanna Whalley – is so thoroughly upstaged by her love interest! It just goes to show how magical elfs are.

So, put me in the thumbs way up category on Rings of Power. Yeah, the writing was godawful at times, but it was a small price to pay for such a massively and glitteringly pretty modern D&D campaign. Way to go, Bezos! I hope you got laid!

It’s interesting - different people have different thresholds. I’m trying to think of a show or movie with bad writing (not cheesy writing, which is a different thing) that I liked and I can’t think of any. If the writing is bad, I cannot enjoy the work.

Other people have different thresholds, but writing is my biggest.