The Muslim Ban: America Loses Its Mind.


#21

The far left doesn’t want facts but hysteria.


#22

Ok, here’s a takedown of the order by a Brookings Institute Fellow know for leaning right and supporting strict immigration policies, etc.


#23

What is bullshit about it?


#24

Really interesting to see how badly mismanaged this has been, whatever the politics.

https://www.balloon-juice.com/2017/01/28/when-the-process-is-ignored-we-get-chaos/


#25

That article is moving the goalposts.

The outrage isn’t over refugees, it’s over the fact that he’s banned legal US perm. residents and visa holders from entering the US w/o any warning.

To construe this executive order as similar to what Obama has passed is very misleading


#26

"Friday night, DHS arrived at the legal interpretation that the executive order restrictions applying to seven countries – Iran, Iraq, Libya, Somalia, Syria, Sudan and Yemen – did not apply to people with lawful permanent residence, generally referred to as green card holders.

The White House overruled that guidance overnight, according to officials familiar with the rollout. That order came from the President’s inner circle, led by Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon. Their decision held that, on a case by case basis, DHS could allow green card "

(Emphasis mine)

I think this is justified ‘hysteria’. Total bullshit. Green card holders. What’s next in the master plan?


#28

Yeah, this is bullshit.

Yeah this is insane. Issuing executive orders when they don’t even have people appointed yet, wtf. Total mess.


#29

Oops, meant to post this here. Sounds like DHS intends to ignore the court order.


#30

Er, what does that mean? What are the next steps? What recourse do the courts have at their disposal as a check and balance to a White House doing what they please, regardless of legal rulings? That sounds bad.


#31

That’s not how it reads to me.

“These individuals went through enhanced security screenings and are being processed for entry to the United States, consistent with our immigration laws and judicial orders.”

“The Department of Homeland Security will comply with judicial orders”

Regardless, this whole thing is stupid. I could understand if they wanted to have a moratorium on new visas and extra screenings for a period of time while policies were reviewed. But this?

It worries me that chaos is the actual goal here.


#32

Seems more like a CYA type of response saying that they’re just doing their jobs.


#33

My fear is that if they don’t do what he wants vs. what the court orders, that he’ll try to deploy the National Guard to enforce for him. Color me skeptical that Trump has the patience to wait while the courts make decisions in cases filed by the ACLU.


#34

Bannon has openly stated that as part of his ideology.


#35

The significant thing for me in all this is that we have a president who has zero idea of how the system works, of how the president interacts with the rest of the government, or of the actual workings of government bureaucracy, and who cares not one whit about any of this, or about learning anything at all about the job of being president. Instead, he’s treating the office like he’s the CEO of a company he just bought, that’s all his, just his, and he can do what he wants. I truly think that at some level Trump believes that the president has absolute power and can rule by decree.


#36

I hope all these bastards suffer the same fate as Atwater.


#37

Declare contempt of court- order US Marshals to arrest them if they don’t comply.


#38

You are correct. Reposting from another other thread, some data from the conservative Cato Institute:


#39

The consequence of harping about this, evidently, is that Trump now is considering extending the ban to more countries.


#40

So if you are discussing this with people elsewhere who are … shall we say … ambivalent about Muslims entering the country, here’s a checklist to keep in mind when trying to change their minds:

  • This is incompetence. This plan wasn’t reviewed by anyone, will probably get thrown out in court (at cost to you the taxpayer) and caused a bunch of chaos at airports. That’s a pain in the ass for everyone, and for no good reason. (No need to go into the fact that Bannon wants chaos …)
  • This separates families - parents separated from their kids, an 80+ year old couple in wheelchairs was made to wait around forever in the airport, etc. etc.
  • This tried to penalize green card holders. It tried to punish people who already filled out all the forms, did everything they were supposed to do, and have already been vetted. It’s a giant “fuck you” to people who follow the rules. [Edit: Apparently Preibus is saying right now on TV they’re pulling back on the green card part. But see point one, this is just more incompetence.]
  • The military is against this because it penalizes people who cooperate with us abroad.
  • This is will not affect terrorism. The ban doesn’t apply to Saudi Arabia, which is where (most of) the 9/11 terrorists came from. Likewise, it wouldn’t have stopped the Boston, San Bernadino, and Orlando attacks.

#41

Yep, most of my arguments aren’t centered around illegality- but incompetence and corruption.

I do think most of the order is legal. The green card holders- that isn’t legal, but I think the rest of it is.