None of these examples are interesting enough for a company the size of EA. They are all marketplace failures when looked at from their perspective.

In any case, I agree with you - I think mod tools are great. But I won’t suggest that Sim City is a failure because it doesn’t have them. I won’t vote EA “Worst Company in America” because they dared to go online only, or give the game 1 star on Amazon (even though I don’t own it) because of the DRM.

I don’t think EA would look at those titles as failures. More likely they see them as successes in their fields, but not likely to make enough of a return to make them viable titles for them to consider developing. It’s not that they have not been making nice returns, just not enough for EA investors to get excited about.

Fair enough, Menzo, but what I was attempting to address was the statement that mods wouldn’t make a difference to the people in this thread who hated the game. I was just providing examples of games where mods “fixed” the game for people who disliked and/or had major issues with it that prevented them from playing and enjoying it.

With offline mode coming, is it worth burning 15 bucks + coupon getting it when it comes back to Amazon’s EC sale on the 20th?

I guess if you can’t actually fix your game, like I said I didn’t think they could, the least they can do is release an offline mode for those who wanted the singleplayer experience. As for Mods, Simcity 5 probably benefited a lot from the fact that the older, better games are still played and supported by a mod community.

Such is the level of complaint about the quality and performance of the game that i have yet to even install Sim City despite purchasing the $80 deluxe digital version.

As someone who dumped a lot of time (and precious, precious money) into this game, and actively keeps up with it because SimCity is literally the first computer game I ever played and is the entire reason I am a PC gamer so I’d really like them to get it right, I think the game could theoretically be enjoyed offline @ $15 depending on what you want out of it. Right now, it’s decent at letting you quickly and easily create pretty-looking “glass bottle cities,” and you can probably make several of them before that stops being fun, if you find it fun at all.

The issues–aside from the much-discussed DRM and mod policy–are inherent to the simulation. Yes, city sizes are small (woefully so), but other vital components of the game, as a city sim, are broken or crazy. Citizens are not simulated at all beyond a low threshold. Yes, even though city sizes are massively restricted to let the poorly designed Glassbox engine not die in a fire, it still can’t keep up with the reported population figures, so it just sorta fudges it based on guesstimates of an increasingly small percentage of the population. As others have reported, even under the latest patch, utility vehicles just plain vanish and students will refuse to attend institutions, or attend ones that are wildly inefficient to get to. Intra-city communication is still haphazard at best, despite numerous patches claiming to fix it. I’m still personally of the opinion that traffic’s inherently broken, although it’s gotten better to the point that some people can play the game happily. And of course the entire central simulation mechanic is so utterly bizarre (the few sims that are actually tracked by the game don’t have set homes or jobs, they just make a mad rush toward open ones every “day” in the game) that I have a hard time enjoying the game as a useful city-planning sim.

At various points, logical errors in the game let ridiculous shit happen, like building successful residential only cities (no, I don’t mean using intra-city play to have a residential-only town feeding into an industrial town down the highway, I mean nothing but apartments and parks and wildly high–but unsimulated–population figures). Most if not all of these exploits have been cleared up, but this has had the unusual side effect of massively limiting the number of “viable” strategies for building high-density, successful cities–particularly since you’re constantly fighting against buggy game code that suddenly decides that it’s not going to pick up recycling anymore in your region where the entire economy is based around recycling. Again, you can make cutesey, pretty cities pretty easily, but if you want to do things like max population or income, I’d have to say that you just don’t have many options nowadays. Others might disagree with what constitutes “many,” in all fairness.

Not sure what kinda bug other people have up their ass for or against the game, but I say this as a man who’s loved SimCity games damn near his entire life as a sapient creature: SimCity failed on almost every level imaginable and here, almost a year later, few of its crippling problems have ever been fully corrected. That it had “slap in the face” online DRM that didn’t even work properly for weeks after release is enough to make me feel like shit for ever even buying it, but the fact that nothing else worked or was even fun for more than a couple of hours is just depressing as hell. There was so much potential here, and Maxis/EA blew all of it amid a storm of lies, arrogance, and stupidity.

If offline mode could allow us to build larger cities, I’d be very happy, even if those bigger cities do wacky things. I kinda like the wacky, to be honest, even if it’s not realistic. I think it would be kinda cool to have a residential-only city. Anyone know if larger cities are in the cards for this new mode?

I am pretty sure it was said, cities will never ever ever ever be any larger than they are now.

Hence the game is dead to me.

They are not in the cards via Maxis, but there is a mod out there that allows one to go outside their boundaries. I haven’t tried it myself as I’m a Dev tester and can’t afford to mess up my game.
The biggest concern I have is that region play has many issues that Maxis might just give up on with some money-cruncher saying they’ve wrung as much money as they can out of this Simcity 5. If they would just give regional play the attention it needs, Simcity 5 can still be amazing and have legs. But they’ve got to fix some basic issues plaguing region-to-region play.

Haha, you’re right, that’s so dumb! About the only thing stupider would be the absolutely mindblowingly moronic comparison of game mods to unliscensed movie sequels and distributing the entire game for free, and asserting that making a mod is basically stealing money directly from the hands of the game company!

Are you a corporate lawyer? You don’t appear to understand the basics of what a game mod even is, which is somewhat unusual for someone on a gaming forum.

Another example would be basically all the Troika games, some of which were literally unplayable without massive user mods and patches.

This sounds like one of the cognitive biases, the name of which I can’t remember but it’s basically the same as beating wife staying with the beating husband. i.e., you liked the Sim Cities of the past and even though Maxis have not said “the next Sim City will be just like the ones of the past”, you’re giving them money now in exchange for their current product (which you don’t like as much) based on your fondness for the Sim Cities of the past and their expectation of their return. Maxis are probably taking your income to mean “he likes this version of Sim City and wants more like it”.

i.e., you’re telling them it’s ok to keep making crap versions of Sim City, even though what you’d really like is for them to make good versions of Sim City. Or something.

Stockholm syndrome?
Abusive relationship?

I think that’s part of the problem. When a company has a great IP that brings back fantastic memories of your childhood gaming days, and then shits all over it, it’s probably foreseeable that it’s going to create a very emotional response. Having some jerk tell you “well, it’s their legal right to stomp all over your dreams” and “it’s also their legal right not to allow anyone to fix it”, is not helping.

Also - DungeonKeeper on iPad. Goddamn it EA, stop buying up franchises and killing them.

To be fair, Dungeon Keeper was originally published under EA.

True, my mistake. Bullfrog was the developer then though, I had a lot more love for EA. EA took over development with Mythic for iOS.

edit: EA was just publisher and it merged Bullfrog a few years after DK was published. So, EAAAAAAAAAAAA! shakes fists

:( miss Bullfrog games.

I never used the word “stealing,” mainly because it is imprecise. I was referring only to infringement, and the rules for infringement of the derivative works right of movie sequels (and the resulting DMCA violations of removing access restrictions) are very similar to the rules governing infringement of the derivative works right of games. The fact you still do not see this distinction, and continue to insist that painting a single car is legally and logically indistinguishable, is worrying. Infringement can undercut profits and result in damages, but “stealing” is sort of a loaded and unclear term.

Are you a corporate lawyer? You don’t appear to understand the basics of what a game mod even is, which is somewhat unusual for someone on a gaming forum.

Yes, and obviously mods can do a variety of things. Some can be considered full-blown sequels, while others make minor changes. Many involve removing the DRM protecting the game, especially in the case of SC5, which is an almost per se violation of federal law.

Again, what is lacking here is respect for the content creator. Games are forms of art and entertainment, much like movies. Both legally and logically, we can and do protect the content creator’s ability to control access to the underlying work, and to create sequels and improvements to that work. A great novel with a bad ending is still the author’s work, and it deserves protection – even if a better author could swoop in and make a far better sequel, Orson Scott Card still gets to say no.

Did anyone here take the ‘servers our required to run our game’ seriously as anything other then ‘we have DRM’? Did anyone here not know that every game having this sort of DRM crashed and burned and took days or weeks to get sorted?

Stop pre-purchasing games and start behaving like rational consumers, and maybe EA will treat you as such.
</jerking>

This is a really good post. The amount of entitlement here is pretty astonishing, as well. “Yes, you built this atrocious work, but now I want to spend the time modifying it and changing it without your permission so I can play it a lot, and if you don’t let me, you are a terrible company.”

My disagreement with you isn’t whether what these companies are doing is legal or not, it’s that is bad business and anti-consumer. No one in this thread has said EA is doing something illegal. They are just being stupid.

And I would buy that mods are not always revenue-enhancing for the content creator if I could think of even one example where it hasn’t worked out to the benefit of the publisher. The fact that EA and whoever else are trying to kill modding and add insane DRM to keep people from pirating their titles (which ends up not working in the end in 99% of the cases) does not mean that they are making a good decision to do so, especially when there are high profile examples of the exact opposite (Arma 2, for instance, which sold like gangbusters purely because of Day Z, even years after its release). Especially when these companies are the same people who talk about losing billions of dollars to piracy due to “lost sales,” most of which is complete bullshit.

Wait, you’re saying EA’s DRM is unsuccessful in 99% of cases? You would acknowledge it stopped SC5 piracy, right? Given that the game made more than $130 million in sales in two months, isn’t that a big blip in your statistic? This makes me doubt your other statistical assumptions.