Personally, I’m looking forward to seeing Shelob, whom I’d completely forgotten about until I re-read the book recently.
Spoiler.
Shelob is not in Two Towers.
:cry:
That’s a freakin’ shame. I was half afraid that might happen, but she fits so nicely into the story, I couldn’t imagine how they could write her out…Unless they just moved her into the last movie, 'cause her part of the story is near the end, and Jackson put the first chapter (or part of it) of TTT in Fellowship, so who knows.
Did he cut her out altogether, Desslock, or move her? Please, I must know!!
Moved her. He wanted to avoid such a big cliff hanger. I think it’s a smart move, personally.
Well, I have to agree with that. The ending of the book is, not only “cliff-hanger-ish”, but very bleak. Breaking it off a little earlier was a good choice.
Thanks Bub.
The reason it was moved was because otherwise there was nothing for Frodo/Sam to do in Return of the King (other than finish the ring quest). The scouring of the Shire is gone, so there needed to be some additional material for Frodo/Sam
Argh! I was just wondering about that. So there’s no Sharky dying at Bag-End? That’s a pity, it would have so nicely rounded out the Saruman character. Then I guess the final journey of the ring-bearers isn’t in the film either, except perhaps as an epilogue?
But what about the extended version of LOTR – I think Sam receives the Mallorn fruits from Galadriel there, so maybe there’s another extended version of Return of the King where he gets to plant them in the Shire?
its the ass to ass theme from requiem for a dream! or really the drug nightmare scenes
Yeah, that track (well, some variation of it) is used throughout Requiem for a Dream–not just in the nightmare scenes ;) It’s a powerful tune.
That’s because Liv Tyler is the trophy. Women who wield swords and wear armor are flawed and unfit to marry. According to Tolkien, that is.
Argh! I was just wondering about that. So there’s no Sharky dying at Bag-End? That’s a pity, it would have so nicely rounded out the Saruman character. Then I guess the final journey of the ring-bearers isn’t in the film either, except perhaps as an epilogue?
But what about the extended version of LOTR – I think Sam receives the Mallorn fruits from Galadriel there, so maybe there’s another extended version of Return of the King where he gets to plant them in the Shire?[/quote]
[spoilers] I don’t think those last two points are necessarily excluded – just the Sauruman/Wormtongue in the Shire stuff. I don’t disagree with that decision (we had a long thread on this topic previously), since I always felt that the only problems with Lord of the Rings were:
(a) the division of the narrative in Two Towers/Return of the King into the separate tales of Frodo/Sam and Aragorn/Gandalf – telling all of one story, and then all of the other, instead of interspersing;
(b) the somewhat sudden accension, and marriage, of Aragorn; and
(c) the very anti-climatic Scouring of the Shire stuff.
I couldn’t be happier that Jackson is addressing all three points, and doing an amazing job based upon what has been shown to date.
[More spoilers…]
I agree that the first two points were a bit unfortunate but I couldn’t disagree more on the last point (sorry for missing the old discussion!).
In my opinion, the Scouring of the Shire is one of the cornerstones that sets LOTR apart from the usual fantasy stuff. It’s a necessary closure because it returns the tale to merry old Hobbiton where it started (essentially fulfilling Bilbo’s hope “…and they lived happily everafter”), and it shows that the “supernatural” threats to the ordinary world have indeed ended (Saruman is now so weak that a bunch of hobbits can deal with him).
I think the key is that the world of LOTR is not a homogenous fantasy world, unlike The Silmarillion. The entire high-fantasy story in-between their start from and their return to the Shire feels like a dream for the ordinary hobbits who were pulled into it, and now they are “waking up” as they return to their ordinary homes – except for Frodo who is now more at home in the dream and “feels like I’m falling asleep again”, as he says.
> agree that the first two points were a bit unfortunate but I couldn’t disagree more on the last point (sorry for missing the old discussion!).
Those are all good points (I think it was Ben Sones who previously was asserting much the same). Both of you are/were persuasive - I see the logic of your arguments, but I just didn’t think the scouring scenes worked well – it was depressing that the hobbits, after all they went through, had to face additional hardship, and I didn’t like the depowering of Sauruman (even though I recognize that it was intended - along with the departures - to reflect the transformation of “supernatural” Middle Earth into plain old Earth).
I’m just starting to re-read Return of the King (I haven’t read it in 20 years), so perhaps I’ll feel differently after I’ve done so, since I’ll likely appreciate that additional subtlety more than I would have back when I originally read it.
It was me. Additionally to the points you mention, I also think the scouring (and the entire end sequence in general) are important as a demonstration of how poorly Frodo fits into the world of the Shire after his ordeal. One of the book’s main themes is sacrifice: Frodo saves the Shire and Middle Earth, but ultimately not for himself. In the end, he passes away to Valinor, and the scouring of the Shire establishes his motivation for doing so.