Ok. I’m sure all sorts of people find value in their own jobs. That doesn’t mean I need to.
No worries, Guap. I hope my post didn’t come across as “white knight-ing” in any way. I have a story of working in the military and seeing sexual harassment at that time and seeing those involved get slapped on the wrists, basically. It was a different time but that still didn’t make it right. This particular story, wow. We are way beyond things like that at this point, or even at the point from 5 years ago.
It’s cool.
My thing is this: attitudes in big companies come from the top down. If the league wants something like this to never happen again, they need to make it important to the owners, who will then make it important to their staff and so on.
The nfl has enough problems right now in terms of their place in society without getting piled on for this. It would behoove them to take action both on that front and because it is the right thing to do.
As a Redskins fan I had to go check in on Reddit to see if they were in uproar. There is indeed a thread full of people, a lot calling for Snyder’s head.
Best comment:
“Are we the baddies?”
This happened 5 years ago and I doubt Snyder had a clue. That seems like a strange response. If he did, go for it.
You’d think that would be a fairly commonly asked question for that team.
You’re the same guy who just posted that attitudes in big companies come from the top down – a wholly accurate statement, from my experience. Snyder is the top of this organization.
I suppose we’ll know soon enough if this is part of a pattern. Will any of us be surprised if we get a flood of these stories about the Redskins or other teams now?
Yeah, I know. Listen, what I’m saying is that (supposition on my part) how the cheerleaders are treated isn’t important to the owners. That doesn’t make the owners directly responsible for some abuse/crime perpetrated by an employee. But the league could take steps to make the issue important to the owners. Does that make sense?
I’m no fan of Snyder, but generally he has been a horrible owner, the type that puts his nose into football and player decisions where it doesn’t really belong. That’s not just my opinion, it is frequented with a lot of fans, thus the push for, “well it happened under his watch, this could be used to push him out.”
And if you think about other leagues where things like this happen, that is indeed something that would be probable. In the NFL? Doubtful.
Fair enough.
And, for a performer, the opportunity to perform on one of the largest stages available. Have you ever performed in front of 80,000 people live, and millions more on TV? There’s an adrenaline rush to live performance that has nothing thing to do with narcissism.
There is a striking disparity between high school and college cheerleading versus professional cheerleading. We have countless friends whose daughters are or have been high school cheerleaders and dance team members. It’s absolutely a commitment every bit as much as being a football, soccer or volleyball player for your school is a commitment. They work hard, and they take pride in what they are doing. They represent the school, at all times, just like any other athlete. Some, if they are lucky and talented, go on to college cheerleading.
College cheerleaders are definitely athletes in the truest sense of the word. The girls I’ve know over the years who did college cheerleading were almost all gymnasts at some point, and all very athletic. The one guy I know who was a college cheerleader was super jacked, like personal trainer-slash-model fit, you’d need to be to lift even the tiniest cheerleader up over and over again throughout a 2 hour sporting event. The kids were athletes, plain and simple. Same with the college dance team, all came from dance backgrounds in high school, and while they weren’t quite as athletic as the cheerleaders, it still takes skill and athleticism to learn and execute those routines. But honestly, the most notable thing about college cheerleaders and dance team members is that they are carrying on a tradition that goes back more than a century. The college cheerleaders live up to their name literally, every time out. They lead the crowd in standard cheers and special ones unique to their school. They lead the singing of the alma-mater, entertain the crowd during lulls and breaks, and interact with people from little kids to great-grandmas as ambassadors of their school. They represent the school, and more importantly, they represent tradition at that school. You can come back to your school 25 years later and the entire campus may have changed, but the cheerleaders are still going to be doing the school cheers, singing the school song, and making you feel as if you’re still connected to that school.
Then you get to the NFL and that all changes. Cheerleaders in the NFL have always been essentially a sexualized sideshow. Originally brought on board when the NFL audience was predominantly male, their routines are simple, their costumes sexualized, and their appearance carefully groomed and managed to achieve maximum fantasy appeal. They are there to keep guys in their seats during breaks and boring stretches. They have absolutely nothing in common with their counterparts in colleges and high schools. You could get rid of them altogether and the game of football would not suffer for it one single bit.
To be clear, I do not blame the women themselves for any of this. This is a problem with the NFL and the teams. If the NFL wants to keep cheerleaders as part of the league, it’s time to pay them a decent wage and treat them with respect and dignity.
Totally agree on the athletic aspect of high school and college cheerleading. Imagine working all that time practing throws and flips and pyramids and then when it’s time to “go pro” they go: “Make weight and don’t forget to tan!”
Cheerleading is a sport in Florida High Schools.
IMO, it’s a way to get title IX compliance more than anything else…
Times have sure changed a bit. I remember when the Dolphins’ Jim Jensen proposed to his cheerleader girlfriend on national TV during the game.
This isn’t directly related, and is an older piece, but it is thematically related, and I think it speaks to the motivations of at least some of the NFL cheerleaders:
While the population addressed is slightly different (cheerleaders aren’t the same as top tier NCAA talent, but there’s some overlap), but a lot of the motivation comes down to a lifestyle of excelling athletically and performing on a grand stage. There just aren’t that many places for women to continue that experience that aren’t subject to sexism and male gaze.
I’m fascinated by the motivations of the audience of the lingerie football league. Guys like staring at women. This is a known fact. But as a practical matter, why would you want to mix that with your football? Go watch porn or go to a strip club.
I guess it’s a variant of why there are Hooters. I suspect the Hooters crowd is, for the most part, there for that type of food. So watching porn or going to a strip club really doesn’t substitute for that. But I suspect that going to a lingerie football game must be significantly more about the scantily clad women then the football. Which leads back to my first point, why not just watch porn or go to strip club?
At least with the NFL cheerleaders, they’re clearly more of a bonus thing than the main reason that the audience is there.
Are there any?
Well porn is somewhat sanitised and fake, in that it happens on a screen between a bunch of strangers. This football is live, visceral, and real. No editing.
It combines the desire to see violence, and the desire to see female flesh, and it is all live, or unrehearsed at least.
Strippers are, from what I recall (been ages since I went to a strip club) rather expensive.
So I can get the appeal of lingerie football.
I just find it amazing that such a sport exists in the USA of all places, where sexuality seems to me pretty much frowned upon, in general.
I live on one of the Spanish islands, where the norm is for women to go topless on the beach and men to wear what are basically swimming thongs, yet i don’t think anyone here would have come up with lingerie football or hockey or rugby etc.
Hmm…maybe that’s part of the appeal? Repressed sexuality finding an outlet?
edit: wtf they don’t get paid? Fuck that. I know some will say my priorities are skewed but seriously, if people are paying to watch you perform, you should be getting paid. That for me is exploitation, more so, sorry to say, than a cheerleader posing for a calendar and being asked/obliged to spend some time with a (presumably creepy) rich old man.
WNBA and Women’s soccer are both legitimate options that aren’t primarily sexualized.
Of course, the vast majority of NCAA athletes wont do any kind of professional sports regardless of gender, but the options for men are so much larger (minor leagues in baseball, D-league basketball, etc).