The NFL 2010 thread

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:31:04.000Z

Matt Bowyer:

Young is not having his worst season – that was his second season, where he was absolutely awful. He’s been above average on a per-play basis, but when you count the whole body of work this year, he’s a Shaun Hill or a Ryan Fitzpatrick – hardly third overall material. (By comparison, Michael Vick, with only 10 more passes, ranks 11 spots higher, and is completing 63% of his passes.)

TL:DR – I disagree, with numbers!

Doesn’t have to be good enough to be 3rd round. He just has to be better than Kerry Collins. (“Ya don’t have to be faster than the bar. You just have to be faster than the guy you’re with.”)

Genji · 2010-11-22T16:32:20.000Z

mkozlows:

They know darn well what they have in Jackson. He started two seasons for them, and he wasn’t very good. Before his third season, he was competing with Sage Rosenfels for the starting position, up until Favre signed with the Vikings.

There’s a reason Childress was pushing so hard for Favre – Jackson is a lousy QB. In 2010/11, so is Favre, but there shouldn’t be any pretense that Tarvaris is going to come in and be awesome.

True, Jackson has never been impressive at all, I meant more that it’s pointless to play Favre with their current record. He won’t be back next year and the Vikings aren’t going anywhere. May as well play the other QBs unless the fans just want to see Favre play out his final season.

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:32:49.000Z

Shmtur:

Of course he looks good if you cherry pick.

Cherry pick? Cherry pick? So you’re saying that how he threw in 2006 is somehow more relevant, or even AS relevant, as how he’s doin’ THIS year? Hey, by that standard, Michael Vick must REALLY suck! All those throws he’s making this year must be some kind of a fluke!

We’re talking about this year. And a little bit of last year.

Shmtur · 2010-11-22T16:33:46.000Z

Rimbo:

Cherry pick? Cherry pick? So you’re saying that how he threw in 2006 is somehow more relevant, or even AS relevant, as how he’s doin’ THIS year? Hey, by that standard, Michael Vick must REALLY suck! All those throws he’s making this year must be some kind of a fluke!

We’re talking about this year. And a little bit of last year.

Vick looks like he’s improved, and he’s putting in the effort. Vince sure doesn’t.

And again, you’re cherry picking. He’s been mediocre to poor for his entire career; I see nothing that tells me different. What do you have?

sluggo · 2010-11-22T16:35:27.000Z

Rimbo:

What am I supposed to believe, that some magical formula behind the numbers shows that he’s actually unproductive, or that he’s actually as productive as the statistics and victories say that he is?

And ironically, you’re hanging your hat on VY’s passer rating, while every other stat this year says he’s having a mediocre season.

What are we supposed to believe, indeed?

Shmtur · 2010-11-22T16:37:31.000Z

Rimbo:

Doesn’t have to be good enough to be 3rd round. He just has to be better than Kerry Collins. (“Ya don’t have to be faster than the bar. You just have to be faster than the guy you’re with.”)

In terms of his career, he’s about the same level as Kerry Collins. He’s generally at or below an 80 rating overall, and his team wins despite him (see Kerry circa the Carolina years, or 2008.) For reference, Kerry’s career rating is 73.6 and it’s 75.7 for Vince.

The difference is that Vince is still a moron; Kerry grew up a bit from his stupid years.

Matt_Bowyer · 2010-11-22T16:43:49.000Z

Rimbo:

Doesn’t have to be good enough to be 3rd round. He just has to be better than Kerry Collins. (“Ya don’t have to be faster than the bar. You just have to be faster than the guy you’re with.”)

Fine. He’s five spots higher. CONGRATULATIONS.

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:44:11.000Z

in other news, Bud Adams is telling Fisher to kiss and make up with Young

BaconTastesGood · 2010-11-22T16:47:07.000Z

Rimbo:

Cherry pick? Cherry pick? So you’re saying that how he threw in 2006 is somehow more relevant, or even AS relevant, as how he’s doin’ THIS year?

Dude, you’re the one trotting out his lifetime W-L record.

Stop focusing on VY’s potential and accept the reality that he isn’t very good. At least fallback on the standard “He’s not being used properly!” argument that most homers rely on. Then when he goes to another team and fails there, we can deal with that then.

Genji · 2010-11-22T16:48:14.000Z

Rimbo:

in other news, Bud Adams is telling Fisher to kiss and make up with Young

Either Young or Fisher has to go at the end of this season, right? Their relationship hasn’t ever seemed great. If the owner believes in Young so much he should just let Fisher walk to another team and let the Titans try and win with him at QB with a more friendly coach. Would suck to waste Chris Johnson’s prime years with instability at coach/qb.

Cubit · 2010-11-22T16:51:09.000Z

It would certainly be a mistake to drive Fisher out of town all in defense of Vince Young. Fisher has done more for that franchise and town than Young ever has or will be able to. Hopefully Adams realizes this.

Shmtur · 2010-11-22T16:51:55.000Z

Genji:

Either Young or Fisher has to go at the end of this season, right? Their relationship hasn’t ever seemed great. If the owner believes in Young so much he should just let Fisher walk to another team and let the Titans try and win with him at QB with a more friendly coach. Would suck to waste Chris Johnson’s prime years with instability at coach/qb.

I hear Wade Phillips is available to coach.

Lorini · 2010-11-22T16:53:37.000Z

There should be a number of coaching openings where Fisher would be more than welcome, assuming there’s a season next year :(. It’s almost a certainty that Marv Lewis will be out in Cincy, and I would expect that Singletary will be under the microscope too. Along with of course the existing openings at Dallas and Minnesota.

Lorini · 2010-11-22T16:55:48.000Z

Cory:

It would certainly be a mistake to drive Fisher out of town all in defense of Vince Young. Fisher has done more for that franchise and town than Young ever has or will be able to. Hopefully Adams realizes this.

Sounds like Bud Adams has been talking with Al Davis or something…why give up a great coach for a mediocre QB? It was unbelievable that Al Davis had to be talked into giving up Russell <mutter mutter mutter> and this seems to be working into the same kind of situation.

BaconTastesGood · 2010-11-22T16:55:55.000Z

Genji:

Would suck to waste Chris Johnson’s prime years with instability at coach/qb.

Sadly it seems most RBs only get 3-4 years as their prime years.

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:56:09.000Z

Shmtur:

In terms of his career, he’s about the same level as Kerry Collins. He’s generally at or below an 80 rating overall, and his team wins despite him (see Kerry circa the Carolina years, or 2008.) For reference, Kerry’s career rating is 73.6 and it’s 75.7 for Vince.

The difference is that Vince is still a moron; Kerry grew up a bit from his stupid years.

So the argument that you’re making that he hasn’t improved is that his career average isn’t very good? How does that show what you’re wanting it to show?

Stop focusing on VY’s potential and accept the reality that he isn’t very good.

Stop focusing on VY’s past and accept the reality that over the past two years, he has been playing very well, saved Fisher’s job last season and this year is playing as well as the better QB’s in the league in the limited opportunities he’s had.

Right now, the reality is that he is playing very well, and people are having to really dig to find things wrong with his current play. About the worst thing anyone can say is that he hasn’t played very much. And maybe, just maybe, that has something to do with his coach wanting to bench him at the slightest provocation.

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:57:31.000Z

Lorini:

Sounds like Bud Adams has been talking with Al Davis or something…why give up a great coach for a mediocre QB? It was unbelievable that Al Davis had to be talked into giving up Russell <mutter mutter mutter> and this seems to be working into the same kind of situation.

Yeah. About the only way you can make excuses for Adams is by saying he’s planning on deferring the decision until the end of the season and just doesn’t want to say it. One of these two has to go at this point.

Lorini · 2010-11-22T16:57:40.000Z

The dude is averaging A HUNDRED AND THIRTY NINE FUCKING YARDS A GAME. Again, makes me think of JFat Russell. How the hell is that playing well?? How can you even assess dude’s game throwing so little?

Rimbo · 2010-11-22T16:58:02.000Z

Lorini:

The dude is averaging A HUNDRED AND THIRTY NINE FUCKING YARDS A GAME. Again, makes me think of JFat Russell. How the hell is that playing well?? How can you even assess dude’s game throwing so little?

YPA, Lorini. YPA. He’s only being asked to throw 17 times per game.

Genji · 2010-11-22T16:58:25.000Z

Lorini:

Sounds like Bud Adams has been talking with Al Davis or something…why give up a great coach for a mediocre QB? It was unbelievable that Al Davis had to be talked into giving up Russell <mutter mutter mutter> and this seems to be working into the same kind of situation.

I’d love to see Fisher in San Francisco. I like Singletary but he’s just not getting the job done there. I don’t think I made it to a live game where the 49ers won during the 5-6 years I lived there :( Of course, the QB situation in SF isn’t any better than the one Fisher would be leaving in Tennessee.